Running the Bases with Small Businesses
Running the Bases with Small Businesses
Athelo Group - Athletes Meet Opportunities
Running the Bases today with Andrew Stallings Founder and President of the Athelo Group. With over 15 years in the arena of sports and entertainment, Stallings has put all of his chips in on the rising tide of sports athletes and properties. With a brevity of knowledge on the brand, property, and media marketing side of sports - Stallings is looking to bring a unique and innovative dialogue to how the evolution of sports can be brought front and center to a whole new audience of consumers.
Today’s guest has been quoted as saying “If your Failures are outweighing your successes you’re doing it right”. He’s okay with the word no and has no trouble going after what he wants. A Sports Enthusiast with an incredible Work Ethic, Creativity and Drive, our guest today has a company many people only dream about. On any given day, you can find him at a Nascar Track, at the Beach for a Wind Surfing or Beach Volleyball Competition, or near the ring for a boxing match. He might be at a photo shoot, a media press session, or hosting a day of meetings with prospective partners hoping to work with his vast network of clients and teams. He doesn’t like the word “Agent” and much prefers the word “Management”.
Welcome to the show Andrew Stallings, President and Founder the Athelo Group - Where Athletes meet Opportunities.
To learn more about Andrew and Athelo Group visit: https://athelogroup.com/
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I'm Randy Rohde and I'm fascinated with entrepreneurs and small business owners. Plus, I love baseball. Every show I sit down with a small business owner and we discuss their running the bases of entrepreneurship. We throw the ball around on strategy management, execution, and innovation. Plus a little fun baseball. Hey, thanks for joining us today. Settle in, grab your cracker jacks, and you know what they say, play. And it's a great day for a ball game. Hey, this is Randy Rohde with running the Bases with small businesses, and today's guest has been quoted as saying, if your failures are outweighing your successes, you're doing it right. He's okay with the word no, has no trouble going after what he wants. He's a sports enthusiast with incredible work ethic, creativity, and drive, and our guest today has a company many people may only dream about on any given day. You can find him at a NASCAR track at the beach for a windsurfing or beach volleyball competition, or near the ring for a boxing. He might be at a photo shoot or a media press session or hosting a day of meetings with prospective partners. Hoping to work with his vast network of clients and teams. He doesn't like the word agent and much prefers the word management. So please welcome to the show, Andrew Stallings, president and founder of the Othello Group, where athletes meet opportunities. Alright, welcome Andrew.
Andrew:Randy, can I get you to do me a favor and just follow me around every morning and pick me up with that intro? Cause I, I think we all need that kind of reminder and ego boost. That was quite the introduction, my man. I, I really appreciate
Randy:it. Thank you for Yeah, I, I can do just a recording of that and that way you can just have it on your phone. It's like, hey. Plan for your wife. Hey honey, remember here, this is me,. It's a gift that keeps on giving, right? This is who you got. Yeah. So Andrea, I love some of this stuff that I pulled out of here. Well, I should say our research team did it. Uh, the word no is okay. Failure doesn't phase you and you know how to bet on yourself. So I'm gonna roll with. And then what I'm going to do, we heard, I don't know, somewhere my research team pulled this thing out, but a a, a college story I'm gonna say about your pursuit. For college entrance. How about that? And if you feel comfortable, we'd would love to hear it. Absolutely.
Andrew:Yeah. No, I have no problem, uh, going down that path. And to be honest, I, I can even start there if that's okay. Sure, yeah. Yeah. Bring it up. Uh, I it, it's funny because in life. We're always kind of told by our peers and, and others around us what they think that we'll be good at. You know, even as a new father, I have a, a 10 month old and the fun conversation over one or two many glasses of whiskey with my wife many nights is What, what do you, what do you think he's gonna be when he grows up? What do you think he's gonna be? I was always told that I was like, Eddie Haskell, right? Like, all my peers were like, man, you're just like the little used car salesman. You're gonna be in sales and you'll, you'll do all these like you're a hustle. And as a kid and as a teenager, you're kind of like, man, that what? No, not me. Like not. I'm not gonna be in sales. Too much risk, too much pressure. No way. It's funny how life works because you don't even realize the situations that sometimes you're gonna be put in, much like you're being rejected from every single university that you've applied to, and you have a nice shiny, glowy 2.2 gpa. Coming out of co uh, high school into college and you think your biggest and best accolades are the fact that your high school basketball team that you were the captain of for two years that won two games total, uh, is your highest accomplishment, and that you were the senior vice president of a small Catholic high school that had 60 graduates in their graduating class. Nice . Little, little reminder, it won't get you that far in life, . So I ended up applying to all these universities. D one schools, some D two D three. And the last university that I applied to was, was Marymount University in Arlington, Virginia, which is where a lot of my family was located. Um, I was originally from Newport News in the southeast region of Virginia here in the United States. The last school, that last school was Marymount. And you know, that's where I want to be. That's where my favorite sports teams are. There's a good growing community in Arlington in that area. My family's there. Why? And I got rejected. So for some reason, most people take that last blow in a fight as the knockout, right? You know, we're using those boxing references a little bit. Like people will just knock you out and they think that's it. But you know, I remember taking that blow that day and it just didn't seem to phase me., uh, you know, I remember coming home, I took that rejection letter, went right upstairs and I just, I wrote a handwritten letter. This is a little bit before like email direct messages, like it was still like obviously right when Facebook was coming out and stuff. Yeah, yeah. Back in 2005, 2006. But, you know, it wasn't the, the, the age and avenue of modern technology and communications was nowhere near where it's at today. Wrote that handwritten note, signed, sealed, delivered, sent it in the mail. A week later comes back. You are conditionally accepted to the class of 2010 at Marymount University. Lo and behold, I look at this today as I'm running, uh, you know what? I think to be a pretty big and global sports and entertainment agency with over 25 athletes that I manage in 130 brands that we work with week in and week out. All of that started and stems from that first sales pitch and it's, it's quite remarkable. At 17 years old, I never knew it until probably I got in my thirties that that was my first journey into really being an entrepreneur was, you know, fighting for what ultimately set me up to the greatest career path of my entire life
Randy:and dreams. Yeah, that is an outstanding story. I. And now, you know, kind of fast forwarding today, you are operating the Othello group. Tell us about the Othello group and what is it that you do? I, you know, I kind of alluded to some fun stuff in the intro, but, uh, what is the nitty gritty, what, what is the Othello group? Well, I'm
Andrew:gonna, I'm gonna really disappoint you, uh, as a baseball fan, Randy , because, you know, the, the one thing that I have to start off and tell you is that the, the Othello Group does not represent or manage within the Core four of North American popular sports. So we don't have American football, we don't have baseball, hockey, or basketball.
Randy:Is that by choice? Uh, you're not pursuing it yet?
Andrew:It is it, it is. Okay. And, and I'll explain to you why there's no shortage of opportunities that find their way on our front doorstep. Sure. With those properties and the relationships that, you know, myself and my team has there both ongoing and from previous years of relationships and inner workings. But you know, my career started at Sirius XM radio after college. Um, I was an intern there, went on to be a producer. Learned the importance and skill of community and networking more than ever. Went over then to Octagon to understand global sports sponsorship and strategy For many years, hopped over to an experiential agency that was an extension of a current client that I had with Anheuser-Busch. Was doing stuff there for about 18 months. Then went over to bra side with Constellation Brands doing field marketing in the Northeast for Corona and Mode, and it was right in between that spot of like Octagon to Constellation, where Othello group was born out of an idea of a side hustle and a dream. I think more than ever, as we currently live in this renaissance era of an economy and a modern day and age of where we are, you know, everyone is always looking for that extra buck and that extra dollar, and especially. The word and term and field of an entrepreneur has evolved so much more than it has, uh, probably in the last decade, um, just in these last 18 months due to covid and everything else. What I had done with two of my buddies who I was in a men's adult hockey league with were. We were just burnt out. We were burnt out from working 18, 19 hour days, still getting our $50,000 a year salary, which yeah, it was great. You know, we were getting to do all these cool events, but it was burnt burning us out. So they were like, Hey, Stallings, like, you know, athletes, you know, brands like, like Let's build an agency. and everything all sounds great and good when you're talking about it after nine Bud Lights, . But you know, you sit there and you're going back and forth and you're like, huh. And I remember just Googling that night, do I have to be a lawyer to be an agent? Yeah. The answer was no. But there's a lot of butts that are tied to that, and I always preface these butts because, People oftentimes hear me explain, and you know, it's kind of why I avoid the term agent because I'd like to really give respect and do credit to a lot of the agents in respective fields that require them to be a lawyer by trade and, and all the hours and work and effort that they go into it. I've been blessed enough that I kind of learned things from the street Credit, you know, way, you know, sitting in rooms with, you know, FIFA and Budweiser and watching them negotiate some of the biggest global pop property sponsorship deals in the world. Same to it with athletes and managers. I, I got to really sit in those rooms and absorb like, you know, what is the right terminology? What's the, what do you avoid? Who gets what? So, but on top of that, I have some incredible lawyers in my network that really have been the backbone to how we built this thing out. And ultimately we took two words, athletes opportunities. We smashed it together to make a funky little run on word called ATH fellow that most people can't pronounce. So it's good marketing out of the gate. And from there we aim to really give athletes more than any other agent or lawyer or management team really could. But we didn't want to take it to the athletes or the properties. Didn't really need it, which are those big properties. Mm-hmm. We wanted to continue to lift up where there were more niche rising opportunities, but also empower the brands to get involved, the athletes to get more involved and excited and give everybody just more skin in the game by kind of being that middle enigma between both property and brand. But also the athletes and talent side of it. So we serve a dual purpose role. You know, I oftentimes tell people my job is always at the intersection of entertainment and education daily, you know, for both sides of the table that I sit on. But, you know, we really try to, to just aim to do things different. I, I, if I was here today to tell you that my goal is to be a billionaire and to get acquired and all that, I would be full. My, my main goal is to continue to push the envelope to the point of figuring out like ways that just haven't been explored or done by people previously. In this path or field or who have been told, no, you can't do that. That's not allowed. Hmm. This has never been done before. I love the unknown. I love the gray area, and right now we are quintessentially living in a gray area where we're seeing a lot more competition pick up in the years, and it's great, but for all intents and purposes, When I started this in 2018, I had no idea because no one else around me was really doing it.
Randy:Right. Right. I would think as well, especially in today's kind of world and, and technology and social media and stuff, you know, nicheing down or getting and, and really being the leader in a small niche or in a small pond, I mean, I think actually makes. Bigger influence and splash if you would, kind of in the world to a degree. And so, and it sounds like that's kind of where you're going a bit with the management agency, where you're looking at these different, uh, I don't know, athletic events or athletes or athletic industries or sports. And you, you're finding these like. Beach volleyball and what I loved beach volleyball. I used to live in Chicago. We used to go down and watch, uh, some of the beach volleyball tournaments said they did down on the beach in Chicago. And, and I know it's a great industry, but you don't, I'm, I'm sure, maybe I shouldn't say I'm sure. I'm guessing that some of the larger sports agencies are probably not like, Hey, we gotta go out and really go find, you know, great beach volleyball athletes and get 'em signed on. So I think if you are pursuing that, I am guessing that it maybe gives you a greater opportunity to be that big influencer and representative for those types of.
Andrew:Yeah. And I, and I think it's interesting, right, because the, some people would say you're, you're almost setting up a world of competition for you, right? You know, sometimes being the first is not always the best, or being the new, innovative, refreshing way is only setting. Setting the roadmap for those to follow you and make it that much bigger and better like never before. To be quite honest with you, I have no problem with competition. I, a lot of people like to collaborate with competition, especially in today's era. They like to say, oh, I'm very, you know, it helps all of us win and educational. Absolutely the hell not. I'm competitive as all hell. And it's
Randy:part, well, you're, you're a hockey player. I, you guys are like, smash mouth, let's go. I'm gonna kick your ass all over this ice. Let's
Andrew:go . I, I get, there's a reason, Randy, why I'm not playing men's hockey right now is because truth be told, I kept getting suspended too much for getting into too many fights. So I can, I, I'm very, I'm very competitive, you know, obviously when it comes to business and, and bigger picture stuff, I keep an even head on this, but, you know, . There's some sports that we work in, for example, where a lot of the agents and managers, they will keep the brands like almost behind closed doors. And then they put all of the athletes almost in this pen and it's almost like they, they kind of use them as trading cards and they'll go to dinners and stuff and be like, Hey, I'm working with this brand and they need this, so why don't you let me borrow the rights to that athlete and I'll give you this for this energy drink company. It's disgusting it, and I, you know, again, the management team, you know, the management teams, they may, you know, love it. The brands may love it because it seems just very, you know, capitalized. But the athletes are continuously just getting screwed over and they're getting smarter. They're getting a lot smarter and getting more brave to the sense that, huh. they'd rather go out on their own and say no to people and, and figure it out than to deal with this anymore. So we're really trying to help educate the brands too, right? Yeah, yeah. Because the brands, they don't, they only know as good as their agents that are, you know, their agencies that they're working with to go get influencers and athletes and talent. They think, oh, well that person got this athlete that has 800,000 Instagram followers for a deal that's $500 a month. Well, that poor. She or he didn't know any better. Right. You know, they, they don't have management, they don't have any of these resources, and then what does that do to the rest of the industry? It's a domino effect, right? It's, it's setting a standard where it's a race to the bottom. You know, very rarely do you, you know, have a car company call you and say, Hey Andrew, I got a budget for$500,000 for one of your athletes. I'm like, come on mama. Bring it on. Bring it home. like, it's usually like, well, you know, This agent would give me that or that athlete, right? And almost every single time I stop the conversation, I'm like, go ahead and go with them. Go, just go do your thing, because I'm not gonna waste my time. I'm not gonna waste my talent's time. I'm not racing to the bottom desperation and negotiating with. Terrorists, for lack of a better term, just as I, I do reflect on that a lot though, is I don't like negotiating, uh, you know, against bad terms. I don't like having, ill taste in my mouth in a partnership, right? At the end of the day, these are not sponsorships anymore. They're true exchanges of return for both parties, between athlete and. And if people can't understand that and start really getting on board with this is not just me giving you money for something, but this is really how we can exercise and explore an a massive return across the board for both sides. That's how you eliminate. A six month partnership or influencer deal and you build long lasting credibility like Michael Jordan with an Nike brand, right? Like it's stuff that just comes straight to mind. That's always the dream. Brands are just too lazy and athletes don't know where to begin to even begin to, to build out relationships like that.
Randy:That's really incredible. I was just gonna ask, and you kind of threw it out a little. But if you've ever kind of walked away from the table or, or a deal or something, you know, from a brand, they're like, no, this isn't good. This is not gonna work. Or, you know, this is not the brand that this athlete needs. Um, anything like that. So you're, you're okay for saying no. You're okay to hear the word no, because in sales it's often, you know, you hear, but you're okay. Saying no as well. Yeah, yeah,
Andrew:yeah. I mean, am I Okay? I would say content, right? You know, I, I think if there is such a bad deal that it's a no-brainer. Yeah. I mean, I'm saying no more than I'm saying yes, right. Most times in a week. But, you know, there, there does come some contracts where the dollar figure versus what the asset exchange is, is. So ass backwards. It, it, it's basically we're buying your entire career. We're buying your life. We're buying the license to use this on billboards. 10 years from now, we're, you know, do like they're planning. Almost as if they can take these away for 10 years and plan a nostalgia comeback campaign as if it's something that catches buzz and catches fire. If I'm a brand, if I'm a property, it's a no-brainer to kind of throw these horrible contracts out there and see who bites, but. You know, many of these athletes I've seen, you know, I was talking to an athlete this morning and they were talking to me about how they're starting this new app and the design team that they're working with, they are leaving almost close to half the money on the table in, in that exchange. I was baffled, and for the record, I'm not managing this athlete. We were just having a casual conversation, but I was just like, my goodness, like it's, that's not good because a lot of the paperwork, it probably has buried that. There is business tied to that where influencer deals, endorsement deals, philanthropic deals like are all tied to an overall business exchange. These athletes don't even know what they're leaving. Right. And it's, and it's scary. I think the number one thing that's missing in today's world of the resources for education to both athletes and brands, and it's the number one reason that I'm not the biggest proponent on the n i l space right now, is because it, it lacks regulation. And some people think that, you know, oh, you just don't want athletes or anyone to get paid. That's not true at. I just want it to be fair. I want it to be as close as fair as possible, and that's not fair for the NCAA or for the universities. I just want it to be fair so much that there are groundwork, there are rules because when there are no regulations, somebody or somebody's. Gets the raw end of the stick, right? And sometimes that's gonna be you. And a lot of other times it's like gambling, Randy, it's not gonna be you. So that's why I always look at it from even just the overall world of being an entrepreneur and a business owner is, you know, for as many wins as you have., you have so many other shortcomings and failures and that's why it's the point of what you made in the beginning of the show. Like, I have no problem just basking in my failures because it makes the winds that much sweeter. And I try to teach that to all of my brands and clients as well. Yeah, yeah, sure.
Randy:So let's talk a little bit. So a a at Othello you have, uh, something like, and these are the, the latest numbers. Uh, I think that our team could pull together 25. Athlete clients that really spanned all different kinds of great cool sports. Water, sports, surfers, volleyball, boxers, skateboard, indie drivers, CrossFit, lacrosse. I mean, you are in every boxer. You've got Evander, Holyfield, sun. Evan on your team, all different kinds of like, amazing. You, you have 190 plus additional partners. I'm curious what falls into that group? About 110 different brands, I think, uh, that you're working with as well, which is cool. And here's a quote. Now, I'd love for you to elaborate on this that you, you were quoted as stating you want Othello to be a Swiss Army knife. What do you mean by that? I think
Andrew:too often we pigeonhole ourselves into being a one dimensional tool, right? And I think, you know, if, whether that is the service that we're providing or you know, the product that we're selling, you know, all too often. The, the most successful path is to always think very, very narrow minded, is to identify your funnel. The beautiful thing about a funnel though, is that it starts and opens very broadly. Usually you want the opening of your funnel to be as broad as it potentially can be, whether you're a business owner or even just in the game of life. Opportunities come from the beginning of that funnel, right? For me, I look at the fellow group as the same. We don't know what we don't know until we get very further down that road of exploration, discovery, innovation, conversation, and education, right? But it all starts with us being able to have conversations with discussions like this or even just bigger picture things where, you know, we're learning from different property owners, different sports, different agents, different agencies, what has worked, what hasn't worked. I sit here today and I tell you no on the n i L space. I don't know what could happen tomorrow. I, you know, you know, I say no to you on baseball. It doesn't mean that the starting pitcher for the Padres couldn't call me and say, Hey, guess what? I wanna work with you. And I'm like, Hmm. All right. Is this just too good of a p opportunity to pass up because he has an incredible brand and a bank account to match it? I don't know. So I know that we have doubled down on our focus on properties that, from the brand lens, have hyper educated and engaged consumers and fan bases where they can see return for a fraction of the. That's always been our focus with brand partners. Rather than spending $500,000 on a tweet with Tom Brady around the Super Bowl, they can spend $50,000 and probably sponsor three of the best A V P volleyball events and two of the best volleyball players in the world throughout a course of a year. It's incredible return. People don't really know where to go at that, and oftentimes there aren't a lot of people selling that because.. Obviously they want more, the properties want more, but there's always gotta be a starting point. Mm-hmm. With the athlete side of it, we're always trying to look at it from the same lens, right. We wanna know as much as we possibly can, but we also wanna get down the funnel to really understand who's gonna benefit the most from all of these resources and do time. It starts with the opening part of it, the Swiss Army knife effect is just because in the beginning, I don't want to be an expert. I don't want my team to be experts and focused on just one avenue of discussion and education. We are the team and our hope is that we can be the team where if we don't have the answer, we're not bullish enough to say, let us go find that for you. Let us introduce you to somebody that may have that answer. It's always a model that goes back to just being community. It's over currency. If you build that community and you have those discussions, you just. Over and over again, become the resource to people. Mm-hmm., there is no greater value in this world than being a resource. If you can find a way to do that, pe your business is gonna thrive. No matter what you do in life, people like you, people trust you, people know you. I mean it, it kind of sucks and sounds a little vain around the world of popularity. It matters.. It matters, and you don't need to be the best. You just need to be the most trustworthy, and you need to be someone that's open and honest enough in a world of complete dishonesty right now. Right, right. Where people want to be able to turn to you and be like, wow, like holy crap. I can get a straight answer from those people. Yeah. Yeah.
Randy:I completely agree with you. It's how we manage our agency as well, is that we really strive to be that trusted advisor. With our clients. And when we get to that spot with them, I know like, okay, we, we are really gonna do some great stuff now that we, we've built that relationship and, uh, and it, and it creates an enthusiasm, I think, both for my team as well as, uh, the client. I think. Um, moving forward, you were talking about something I wanted to dig in really. To kind of get your opinion. So when you're kind of giving that, uh, example of value, right? So somebody's gonna go buy a one-time tweet with Tom Brady for $500,000 or for 50,000. They can do all of this other great stuff with this very niche. Specific, uh, I think you said A B V, which I'm guessing was like the beach volleyball or something like that. Do you think, this was kind of where I was trying to get before, but do you think that the fans in like the A B V, meaning the beach volleyball, that those fans are more, I don't necessarily wanna say rabid, but more engaged maybe than people that are in a, that are football fans now? Football fans, obviously there's gonna be some folks that are just. Pure fanatics, right? that come to the Browns game and they're all body painted up and everything. Those guys are, uh, amazing. But I've always kind of wondered only because I, there's several sports that I love that are not your prime big core. As well, like I love cycling and I've been a cycling fan for years. You know, I've recently, uh, in the last couple of years gotten into rowing and that sport of rowing, and I'm like, oh, you know, and I, for me as a, as a follower, uh, or a fan of those sports, I find myself just more highly engaged on. Who are the brands that are supporting those, uh, sports? What are the, uh, resources and information available? How do I educate myself more in those sports? So I just know on those highly niche kinds of, of sporting events or, or in that universe, I'm, I'm much more engaged than, you know, I love baseball, but I'm not constantly looking like, how do. Uh, learn more about the nuances of the sport. I don't know if I'm off the, uh, path on that, or I was just curious on your opinion about that in, in, in your
Andrew:industry. What do you say? So, it's a great question and the, the one thing that I'll explain to you and, and I'll, I'll turn it back on you for a quick question, is with, with properties like the N F L and M L B when you're watching a. or you're just doing a fantasy, you know, matchup that week on your phone or tablet. How educated are you or how invested are you into news happenings and findings that make you feel like as a fan that they need not only just my emotional loyalty and support, but they need my financial loyalty and support, even with baseball tickets on the decline for years. Did you ever for once think that the San Diego Padres were gonna fold and that the MLB was gonna go away? No. No, no. Never. Right. You know, and there's, there's a business side to all of that, right. When you see some of these numbers and arguments about arbitration and everything going on, it's, it's kind of comical because they expect for us as fans to care. When you're talking about TV rights deals in 50 to a hundred million dollars, what does my $150 jersey sale mean to the Green Bay? Packers? Like, get screwed. I, I like, you don't need me. Right? So, The A V P, nascar, IndyCar, W S L, they and their athletes are talking about the expenses that accompany these athletes that accompany these teams that they struggle with as Olympic athletes. Like you're seeing that firsthand through social media and then also just through. Raw behind the scenes content and documentation like never before. That kind of narrative and storytelling isn't happening so much at the high level. It's being foreshadowed by big numbers and dollar signs that really turns all of us off, and it really turns, like me as a fan, when I'm watching a hockey game, you know, I sit there and I don't analyze the business. I'm like, the NHLs not going anywhere. Like the minor league hockey programs aren't going anywhere. I don't. Like, you know, I don't care about the business of those sports because they're so established and so robust and have so many people. It's part of the main reasons I don't work in those properties is because I think there's far too many layers and tissue for someone like me to come in that's gonna get to the emotional core of the, of the clot of issues between like brands, properties, and athletes. For anyone to even really. And it takes a village, just even in these smaller properties to do it. Someone like me going against the N F L come on. Like, you know, like for all the issues that are all very like seen and out in the open in the N F L, it still doesn't matter. And, and it's foreshadowed by. You know, all these big numbers and things that we're often just kind of like, we're oblivious to, right? So we just go to our fantasy and our DraftKings and our FanDuel and we move on. Yeah. So, you know, I, I think again, you see a better job of things being documented in different ways through the lower properties. I'm
Randy:curious because it always, uh, and I'm sh in your world, especially, it started with the first one. Uh, do you have a story? Can you talk us through how did you sign your first.
Andrew:Yeah, so when I was in the Maldives, I was there on behalf of Corona and the World Surf League. Uh, my job was to spend a month on a boat with Chris Hemsworth and Mia and all of these other people. And the last person to get there was this niche windsurfing athlete named Zane Schweitzer. And that guy showed up, did a back flip off the. and he spent the rest of the month begging me to manage him because he thought that I was an agent at Octagon when really I was an account manager. That was just, you know, pushing premiums and sampling and everything else. So it was, uh, it's someone that, you know, I love Zane to death. He's a 17 time winner, you know, in champion of water sports activities. He's sustainable athlete. His grandparents invented the sport of, you know, windsurfing and kite surfing. Wow. Uh, and it just goes to show that all that stuff is, you know, it, it comes from just the most random discussions and conversations. So Zane's still with us, it's been four and a half years, and he was our first athlete that we ever signed.. Oh, that is
Randy:awesome. That's a great story. And, uh, I, I've never been to the Maldives, but it sounds, uh, fabulous. if you're hanging out. So what does the organization look like? Uh, Othello? Do you, I, is it you? And a handful of people? I don't know how big a team is. You know, I think my experience, and this is gonna sound absolutely ridiculous, but my experience in thinking about agencies and representatives, management agencies is like, um, remember that show on HBO Entourage? And Ari, you know, and he just had like all of these people everywhere. Like, what the hell do all these people do?? Is that, you know, real life for you.
Andrew:I, I wish, I wish I could say it was like that , um, I, you, you may even be able to hear behind the scenes, my son waking up from his nap in the other room and screaming. So I, that that's, that's our team. That's, it's me and my son, my 10 month old son. Mm-hmm. That's what we do. No, I, you know, for. For what we do, we probably have a handful of full-time employees, um, that are spread across operations, partnerships, you know, finances and legal right. Taxes, all that stuff. And then we, we have a lot of freelance relationships. Mm-hmm. You know, like we have a lot of contractors and, and partnerships and other agencies that we work with on stuff. And it's been that way because you know, when you look at that model of entourage, it's so big, right? Like, you know, 500 people working on one account. It's not realistic and it's not sustainable, like to these ways and methods of doing it. So, I don't know, just a little bit different.
Randy:I thought it's crazy at that show is hilarious, but I'm like, yeah, you just see all of these people like what in the world? How, how does that. All right, good. I'm gonna move on here. I'm gonna ask you a question. It's that time of the show here. Andrew, do you like baseball?
Andrew:I'm a big brace fan. Big brace. All. Alright, well there we
Randy:go. And it's
Andrew:time for the seventh inning stretch.
Randy:Alright, time for the seventh inning. Andrew, this is where I get to ask you. Some fun, baseball related, questioned, um, just to have a little fun and start thinking about other things besides, uh, you know, our business anyway. And being that you like baseball, that's good. So our research team always tries to find like something that's relative to your niche. And so we kind of picked up this about sponsorships. And, uh, I got a twofold for you here. Well, actually, it's not a question, this first thing, but just I thought was kind of interesting because they threw in, they knew that you had worked with Corona in the past, and did you know that this year that the beer category for the first time is being shared by two beers, two brands, Budweiser and Corona.
Andrew:So interesting story. I do know that cause I actually helped with the Corona deal for the Mets. Mm-hmm., um, when I was at Constellation initially. And what a lot of people don't know is that Corona in the US is owned by Constellation Brands. Yes. Globally Corona is owned by Anheuser Busch InBev. So when you see the different marketing campaigns in the US you see Bad Bunny and Snoop Dogg and this kind of. Satire, slapstick, Corona brand globally, it's still fine. Your beach exotic, laid back. So two very different brand identities in the way that they're operating. The marketing strategy. Yeah, that's
Randy:very fun. I did know about the InBev. I did know that they owned Corona now, but uh, yeah, I just thought it was interesting. So, uh, Budweiser is still the official bear, but you know, they've kinda expanded upon this, uh, little other. So now here's the real niche question for you. All right, so we're gonna get into uniform sponsorship. So this is something that's really just in the last few years, has taken on some steam and is moving ahead back in 2019. The M L B. Explored they were doing this deal, ah, where are my notes on that? They were dealing the deal. I think it was, uh, New York and Boston were, uh, going in London and they were exploring how they could really market and get some more juice out of this, uh, series that they were doing in London. And they experimented with the concept of doing a helmet. Sponsorship where they, uh, put a, a brand on the helmet on the player's helmets with Mattel. And so they did that back in 2019. And then, uh, you know, they saw it was an opportunity and so they began exploring this. And so next year they're doing this in, um, 2023 season, they're expanding it so that they are doing patches on the sleeves of the player's uniforms. What do you think about that? I, you
Andrew:know, I'm all for asset exploration and evolution. I think the, the one thing that I'm, I like seeing the Jersey patch evolution right, uh, of that asset become more and more prominent. I think it's a bit overvalued. Some of the money behind it is. I mean, the fact that brands are willing to pay hundreds of millions of dollars for a Jersey patch baffles me, , uh, when they could own a race team, they could own a NASCAR team for hundreds of millions of dollars. They could own 10 NASCAR teams for God's sakes. But for me, I always look at stuff where I'm just like, Hey, if we're looking at how we constantly explore and reinvent these assets, everyone went like, it's, it's an absolute win-win.. I don't know if I love that exact example, but what I'm gonna be more and more curious of is what brands are gonna start pushing the envelope on other parts of the uniform that can be owned. You know, I want to see like, you know, we see a lot of, uh, sneaker artists right? Coming into the world right now. Like cleats, all that, right? Like who's gonna. Own that. Like that's incredible. The bats like, I wanna see designs on bats, gloves, I wanna see that creativity. Yeah. Be able to come
Randy:out. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. I think it's kind of fascinating. So here's your first, or your question on, I'm gonna throw at you though, is there was an M L B team that debuted their sponsored patch first, and I wanted to ask you who that team was and who is their uniform patch sponsor. Oh my goodness.. It's not the Braves,
Andrew:it's, it's definitely not the Braves. I want to say it was one of the LA teams, but I know I'm probably wrong. For some reason Cleveland is sitting in my head. No,
Randy:not Cleveland, actually. You're close with an LA team. It was the, uh, Padres. Padre.
Andrew:Yeah. I, I use 15 Padre's references this entire show.
Randy:Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, um, Motorola is the, uh, the sponsorship. Yeah. So Padres, they, um, they debuted this thing with a big, uh, Motorola patch. And by the way, so this first year that MLB is, Doing the uniform sponsorship, they're being very uniform about the patch, that it can only be a very specific four by four patch and where it has to be on the uniform. But they're indicating that after the first year, they're gonna give teams, uh, the liberty and freedom to kind of explore a little bit more. what that would look like. So I don't know. I love it. The creativity that you were talking about, right? Uh, yep. Who knows what in the world that could be. All right. So that's fun. So not too bad. You're close in the same state anyway,, . All right, let's get back into it. Play ball. Okay, so for small business owners listening, cuz that that's the majority of our audience here, what is the entry point to working with influencers or niche? That's
Andrew:a really, really good question, Randy relationship building and, and, and it sounds, it sounds so simple, but also so gray, but the power of the dms in social media is incredible. Hmm. But you have to be very careful and you have to be very authentic. In how you approach somebody. Athletes, creators, influencers, of course, are looking at monetization, which is fine, but for a lot of these small business owners, they don't have big checks to write. Right? Right. So how are you creative in your exchange?. Well, if you're a bagel shop, no offense, but a CrossFitter is not gonna want bagels for life., you know, as, as sexy as that is, it's probably not good for them. So what can you do to incentivize a creative use of their name, image, and likeness that capitalizes on a moment or a moment that is something that no other athlete in their respective sport has done before. Athletes and talent alone are looking for brands that get excited and want to partner with them on loud, disruptive, creative opportunities. If you can come to the table and put your money where your mouth is, not into the necessarily the pockets of the talent, but if you can do something that's buzzworthy in PR enough. it shows that you're serious. Mm-hmm. and it shows that, you know, you're taking your, your business and your bottom line seriously in order to have a long lasting relationship. Obviously athletes are becoming more and more smart. Agents are asking for equity and sweat equity deals these days. There's nothing wrong with that, but you know, as somebody who relinquished 66% of his agency early on and then had to buy it all back, it. Tough to start getting into those equity exchange deals, especially if your end goal is acquisition. Yeah. So I always forewarn business owners about that, just to be very cognizant and careful about that stuff. But you know, I would say your creativity and your willingness to just have a dialogue and listen to the concerns of what an athlete or talent may have, may surprise you. And you know, many of these athletes just. They just want their airfare coverage, the next event in Chicago, right? And they don't have anyone to do it. It would blow your mind how much an exchange like that, that may cost you four or $500 and maybe even something you can use your own delta sky miles out of, right? Meant to that athlete. But just, Hey, no, no strings attached. We're big fans. We wish you the best of luck. Go get 'em this weekend. Like we're proud of you. It's just the empathy tied to a partnership. It, it really goes the distance in a lot of ways.
Randy:Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's incredible. I, and I loved, you know, when you're talking about creativity and kinda even the example that you gave there, because often, you know, with small business, they don't have these monstrous budgets. Right. For them to think they're gonna go spend $50,000 even to do something could be just outlandish to them. The, uh, it's. You know, feasible. So in thinking about other creative ways that they may be able to approach some athletes or influencers, I think is, uh, yeah. It's a, it's a real, that's a real eye-opener I think, and, and a great opportunity, um, for the small business owners with small businesses and owners, entrepreneurs network. I, I think is a big issue. Always forefront, I think of their mind. A lot of conversation obviously around, you know, what is networking? How do you do it? Well, libraries have been written in regarding to networking. I think you've got an interesting. Approach and theory on networking. Some things that I've read, uh, in some articles or, or blogs that you've, uh, put out on about, uh, your approach to networking and building your networks. Can you kind of speak to that, uh, specific area?
Andrew:I mean, do we have time to do a whole separate podcast that's gonna take nine hours?, I just to simplify it, uh, I'll use the example that I probably most commonly use. I, I think, very old school. The, the value that my, my male man or male woman can bring to me in an exchange is just as valuable as in exchange as I'm having with you today. So far removed. We think, oh, the person that's making my coffee at Starbucks, like, who gives a shit about them? You know, like, oh, the person that is at the gas station, you know, giving me this pack of gum. Who gives a shit? If you are very self-aware of your surroundings and you are just giving that respect factor, you know, it's something that, you know, my uncle uh, my uncle Matt, who's teaching English over in Spain, I, I'll never, I don't ask me why I remember this, but I'll never forget that as a kid. He took me into a coffee shop or a cafe in Richmond, Virginia, and we were getting a coffee with him. He had me for the day and somebody had asked him, Hey man, have you heard that new Fiona Apple album? And they got into like a 20 minute discussion on Fiona Apple's newest album. I'm sitting there and I'm just like probably 10 years old. I'm like, what? Like what? But to this day, I remember. Because he had this demeanor about him that made him approachable in that setting, and they had that exchange that, you know, again, nothing else mattered like schedule didn't matter. Rushing to the next appointment in that moment to that complete stranger, he had built a relationship that probably w felt like, you know, they, they were best friends in that very moment. That power and that connection and that autonomy of just, you know, feeling that that energy between exchange is so long removed. People in business these days are always looking out for me, me, me, me, me. They don't have the patience for we, I'm not saying that they necessarily should have the patience for we, because look, we all have to eat. We all don't have the privilege to be able to, to go layers and layers and layers in debt in order just to hopefully one day hit it big on that one big deal. But you do owe it to not only your., but you owe it to everybody around you to give them the respect and the time and the attention that as human beings we live for, and that goes, that supersedes business that goes back into that community over currency model. And it's.. It's just so incredible to me because my, my dad, you know, he was a banker for 40 plus years and he was like the freaking mayor of our town. You know, he could go into a, a pizza hut in Newport News, Virginia. Everyone knew Roy Stallings and it, it, I was just like, man, like he's a freaking banker. You know? Yeah. Like, I mean, albeit he had a senior position at a bank, but man, everyone knew my dad. Everyone in Tidewater, Virginia knew my dad. And I'm like, why? Like my dad didn't golf. He wasn't out there at the country club. Schmoozing, like my dad literally did his job. He came home and he provided for his family. Very, very, very routine mentality and blue collar mentality. Still, everyone knew and loved my dad. To me, that's what we should all be striving for, is that same. by anybody around us, whether it's in business or life as a whole. And that, I mean, that's truly the bridge. That's the bridge of how, you know, you can define success and how you define it in your own terms is to, is to seek respect. Mm-hmm., seek respect, everything else comes. Mm-hmm., that's the way that I've always looked at it.
Randy:Yeah. I love that, that currency. How did you state that, uh, community over currency or is, uh, something like that? Yeah,
Andrew:yeah, yeah. I mean, community over currency is something that I've been saying for years. Yeah. And it's, it just came out one day and I remember I tweeted it and it's pinned at the top of my Twitter profile just because I, it's literally the one success metric that has made me who I am today. Yeah. Is my community has always, like, it's just always superseded currency. And then currency has always followed right now on top of that. Now with that comes privilege. I am a middle to upper class white male living in Connecticut. I am a hundred percent aware that not everybody around me has the benefit, the authority, the education, the love that I've had in my entire life that we all too often just don't like to talk about or think that it shouldn't be talked. But I'm lucky. I've had a lot of bad things happen in my life, but I've had a lot of good as well, and I think it's important to always remember that somebody and some buddies have it way worse off than you, and you know, whether that's business, life, et cetera. Don't take anger and match it with anger. Don't take emotion and match it with emotion. It's truly a balance of yin and yang. It, it's finding how you can take what you are being. And absorbing it. And even when you're anger, like when you're angry, rather like somebody hopefully can match you and balance you out it, it's finding those people around you and that community around you that. in your state of emotions, wherever you're at that somebody can offset you to keep you on your toes and pivoting and learning, educating, and doing all those things, it becomes way bigger than anything in business I, if you can have that community around you, right, and it's tough. It, it consistently, I call my community my fantasy football lineup. I'm changing it every week, every few months I'm looking for new mentors, new people to talk to. It's not like, like marriage and best friends anymore that we were growing up and accustomed to. You have to be looking for new people that are going to inspire you and keep those embers of your own personal flame going.
Randy:Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious on your position about this. So as you're talking. Building the community or being a part of that community and the, and being authentic, I think, in that community. Do you feel there's a sense of duty or responsibility that you owe as well to that community?
Andrew:It's a really good question too. I, I've never thought about it that way, but yeah, I, I mean, I don't know to who I, I don't know, to my wife, to my athletes, to my family., but I always feel like I do owe something to someone and I, and I don't, I don't really know exactly who, and I think maybe the unknown of that is probably what makes it so inspiring is that maybe one day, you know, when I'm like in my hundreds, I'll sit down and I'll figure it out. Right. For me, it's, you know, like I'm not a super religious guy. I, you know, I, I, I went to Catholic school and stuff my whole life, mostly just because I got kicked outta public school for being a snot, no shit . But, you know, I, I, I mean, I
Randy:went to Marymount, let the nuns beat you into submission. Yeah.. Oh yeah. A hundred
Andrew:percent. A hundred percent. But you know, I, I am, as you can probably have gained in the last few minutes, you can tell like I. I'm very belief driven and energy driven into the power of people and those around you. And you know, is there something, someone above us, I mean, who knows? That's for another podcast, right? Right. But I do think that, you know, for all intents and purposes, I'm grounded in knowing that I have to deliver for my tribe, and that is what's under my roof for my team. That is under my business. And you know, ultimately my family that goes and supersedes generations with the name that I carry. So yeah, I owe something to someone. I just don't know exactly who at the end
Randy:of the day. Well, I was just kind of curious because as you were talking about the community and you were given that great example of your uncle, and I know you talk about mentors and having mentors in your network, people that you can learn. I often believe as well we're part of those communities and we should be looking. And this is where I was wondering if you were kind of going down this path as well. I always kinda believe that people have helped me in so many different ways throughout my life and my career. And I always think I should be, uh, it's part of my responsibility or duty, if you would, to be looking for others that I may be able to. I don't wanna be so bold to say to be a mentor, but you know, what are some ways that I could help support and or encourage or provide, even in a moment at, at that moment, you know, some words of, uh, education, wisdom, I don't know, off of my own experience. And yeah, I do a lot of things with my kids. We try to go do some service stuff and things and you know, they, why are we doing this? And I'm like, well, we serve. Others served before us. And so I think that's part of community. And when we're a part of a community, it's, um, we get from the community certainly, but I think it's also incumbent upon us to, uh, to give. to the community. So curious about that. That's all. Yeah, absolutely. So you've got this network and you talk about mentors and the importance of, and I think you even mentioned like, Hey, I've got people on my fantasy football team. You know, I'm bringing people in and mentors into the network. How do you identify those people? How do you approach them?
Andrew:Oh, it goes back to originally what I was saying before it, the mail. Could be my mentor One week. You could be someone that I, after this podcast, we stay in contact and we find ourself on Zoom calls at 10 o'clock at night. Just sharing a bourbon or whiskey, it really depends on. The circumstances of life, it, it, it depends on who's gonna approach me to ask me about that Fiona Apple album when I just had no idea it even came out. Right. It's, it's the curious, those that are curious enough to be prideful enough to also interject them into my life. While also allowing myself to do the exact same. It can't be at this stage in my life, in my career, it can't be 150%. Me always throwing myself out there and give, give, give, give, give. I'm not sitting, sitting here saying that I expect something in return, but.. I think that I've done humbly a good enough job of building such a, a great name and tribe and a business at this point that luckily the inbound is starting to come back around full circle, where people are actually listening to some of these podcasts that I do and reading some of the articles that are done about Othello Group and some of our athletes. And, you know, I, I think there's power in that. So for me it's really just finding. Like-minded and curious individuals, they do not have to be in the same space as you. They do not have to be doing the exact same thing as you. Quite honestly, I love and usually find the most inspiration from people that are doing the exact opposite of me and figuring out what are their ways of working, thinking how to and wherewithal, because those are the s. Those are the things where I pull the most information and apply 'em to my model of life and thinking in business. Yeah. Uh, ask me if I talk to another NFL agent about anything. Hell no. like, you know, if, if anything, I am probably a bit too cocky and think that I would just be giving information away, that it's gonna be repurposed and used in areas that maybe I should or should not be in. I'll, I'll have relationships, I'll have friend. and, and I even had a, um, an agent call me outta nowhere two weeks ago, just introducing himself, being like, Hey man, I'd heard about you in this space, and was really putting himself out there. And I told him, I was like, Hey, if for nothing else, I have no idea what your motive is. I respect the hell out of it. Mm-hmm., I, I respect it for nothing else. And you're curiously reaching out just to have a conversation and engage like you want to know., what makes this guy tick? Whether he's my competition or not, what is he doing right. Let me hear it from the horse's mouth. Like that's the entourage shit right there, Like that's when Ari Gold is having those conversations with Terrence. That's the stuff where it, like as much as they hate each other, they need each other. Yes. And that's, that's where it's good camaraderie and good business and also just overall, Personal relationships. Yeah, yeah. Is relationships like that in due time. All right. I'll dig
Randy:it. Hey, I, uh, I was, uh, you, you had me going with the whole Fiona Apple. I'm like, Fiona, apple. So I, I got a little, uh, little tribute to your, your Uncle Max. Do you remember this song? The criminal from the title . Oh my gosh,
Andrew:no, I ask me if I know any Fiona Apple song. I have no idea., it's it. I was so young. I, I, but I just for some reason still remember that example. No, it's delicate. It's.
Randy:Yeah. I don't know why I, I haven't heard any of that stuff for so long. Well listen. Okay, here we are. We're coming down to the bottom of the ninth. What advice do you have for rookies in the game? So those starting out in business, I mean you, uh, you know, just dug in and kind of carved out this very cool niche agency that you're doing. But for those starting out in business or maybe those who have just started their business, what kind of words of advice do you have for them? Reps
Andrew:get the reps.. You know, I, I, I think, you know, I could sit here and tell you networking and all that, which would be very true, but I think it's a bit repetitive and probably falls on deaf ears most times. I think you need to figure out the ways that you can get the reps in., you have to figure out ways and methods for you to get reps in and that cr and that's gonna also challenge and inspire your creativity. Right. You know, when you're thinking about, you know, business development. Like say if you're a salesperson and you're hired to sell tickets, we'll go back to use the example for the Padres. Do you think that some of the best salespeople are just going down their list and just picking up the phone and calling and using the same script? Absolutely. Like they are thinking about the most engaging and entertaining ways to get in front of perspective clients, customers, and buyers like never before. And I think if you can challenge yourself to be creative while also educating yourself on new ways to make a buck. It, it comes in due time with reps, but I, I say reps and creativity go hand in hand. Like if you're doing the same thing over and over and over again, like, okay, that's good and well, but let me remind you that no one in this world wants an expert anymore. Nobody wants a no know it all. Nobody wants to. To have somebody that knows how to do just one thing, unless maybe you're in the HVAC or plumbing business or something like that, or automotive, maybe you need to know just one specific trade. But even those individuals, I would argue, need to have other assets and connections and tools in order to keep business going and other verticals for them. So you need to make sure that you are constantly looking at what are new and unique ways to try and lift a.. Right. You know, you can do it like this. I don't know if this is recorded with video, but you can do a bench press, you can do a bicep curl. Right? What are the 50 million ways that you can lift a weight today? Yeah. Like think about it the same way with making a buck. What are the 50 million ways that you can make a buck today in the, if you wanna do it in sports management and sports business, what are the 50 million ways that you could take Tiger Woods and make Tiger Woods buck today? Think about that. Yeah. And obviously you're gonna have to set your benchmarks because Tiger Woods doesn't need a. So how do you make Tiger Woods a hundred million bucks? Think about that today, and what would you do to get that a hundred million bucks? So that's, it's always just creativity. Yeah, creativity and getting those reps in. Yeah.
Randy:All right. Get the reps in. Listen, Andrew, I, uh, thank you so much for being on the show. It's been a lot of fun, man. You got a lot of energy going on. You're, you're gonna get the reps in today, I'm sure.. Oh,
Andrew:man. I, I, let's see, we're two coffees deep and there's an energy drink in the fridge, in my name on it. Oh God, let's go
Randy:get it. And at 10 months old ready for you to, uh, hit the floor and get wrestling or something. So listen, thank you so much for being on the show. It's been a lot of fun. And folks, you can go find out, uh, really all about the Othello Group. Go to othello group.com. That's a. H e l o group. And uh, they got a great looking website, A lot of fun stuff on there. So go check those guys out and we'll have links in the show notes. And again, thank you Andrew, for being on the show. Folks. Hey, that's a ballgame. Thanks for joining us today. And if you like to show, please tell your friends, subscribe and review, and we'll see around the ballpark. Running the bases with small businesses is brought to you by 38 Digital Market. A digital marketing agency committed to client growth with lead generation higher conversions. And increased sales. Connect with us today at www.38digitalmarket.com.