Running the Bases today with Jenny Abouobaia the Founder at Clever Touch Marketing - a unique Egypt-based, women-led Digital Marketing Agency. Founded in 2017, Clever Touch Marketing has become an industry leader for delivering results in Affiliate Marketing and training others in driving their own success in the industry.
Jenny shares her incredible journey down the entrepreneurial path - Dance studio owner, Bollywood dancer appearing in 300 films, Mexican Circus performer, Las Vegas Show Girl and on to Egypt for her current role.
Although SEO is a male-dominated industry, Jenny and the team at CTM like to go against the grain: their accomplished management team is exclusively female and staff ratio is 70/30. Their ladies have professional qualifications across all levels of SEO—no mansplaining needed here!
We have a great time exploring all the incredible experiences and success Jenny has enjoyed. I think you’ll love this show and the fascinating individual!
Learn more about Clever Touch Marketing and the FREE Affiliate Marketing Courses available here:
FREE Courses: https://serphack.com/
Clever Touch Marketing: https://www.clevertouchmarketing.com/
Get Local SEO and Digital Marketing information from 38 Digital Market
Listen and subscribe to our show on iTunes, Spotify, Amazon Music, Google Podcast, iHeart Radio, Pandora or TuneIn.
Follow 38 Digital Market on our Social Accounts:
Follow our guest today at:
Running the Bases today with Jenny Abouobaia the Founder at Clever Touch Marketing - a unique Egypt-based, women-led Digital Marketing Agency. Founded in 2017, Clever Touch Marketing has become an industry leader for delivering results in Affiliate Marketing and training others in driving their own success in the industry.
Jenny shares her incredible journey down the entrepreneurial path - Dance studio owner, Bollywood dancer appearing in 300 films, Mexican Circus performer, Las Vegas Show Girl and on to Egypt for her current role.
Although SEO is a male-dominated industry, Jenny and the team at CTM like to go against the grain: their accomplished management team is exclusively female and staff ratio is 70/30. Their ladies have professional qualifications across all levels of SEO—no mansplaining needed here!
We have a great time exploring all the incredible experiences and success Jenny has enjoyed. I think you’ll love this show and the fascinating individual!
Learn more about Clever Touch Marketing and the FREE Affiliate Marketing Courses available here:
FREE Courses: https://serphack.com/
Clever Touch Marketing: https://www.clevertouchmarketing.com/
Get Local SEO and Digital Marketing information from 38 Digital Market
Listen and subscribe to our show on iTunes, Spotify, Amazon Music, Google Podcast, iHeart Radio, Pandora or TuneIn.
Follow 38 Digital Market on our Social Accounts:
Follow our guest today at:
I'm Randy Rohde and I'm fascinated with entrepreneurs and small business owners. Plus I love baseball. Every show I sit down with a small business owner and we discuss they're running the Bases of entrepreneurship. We throw the ball around on strategy management, execution and innovation, plus a little fun baseball tart. Hey, thanks for joining us today. Settle in, grab your cracker jacks and you know what they say? And it's a great day for a ball game. I'm Randy Rohde with running the bases with small businesses. And, uh, again, you know, I'm, I'm just in this pattern of having first on the show. I, you got another podcast been running for about a year and a half now, but today is probably like the hallmark of first, because I think we have so many first on the show today. I can't even count actually, so today's guest, I'm going to give you this great intro. All right. And then we'll dig into this stuff. You've had so many different, interesting careers. We could probably spend an hour diving into each one of these things I can't do. I literally could I think, and know, maybe we'll have to get you back on and talk about some of these other things too. You're born in new castle, England. She began working at 15, was a small business entrepreneur owning her own dance studio at the age of 19. After some unexpected changes in her business model, she packed her bags, headed to Bollywood. I have no idea where Bollywood is even as a professional dancer, she danced throughout the mid east appearing in over 300 Bollywood movies are adventurous spirit letter to run away with. All right, folks, I've checked this multiple times and this is accurate. She ran away with a Mexican circus. Is that true? Yeah. Oh my gosh. Uh, she landed in America at some point, dancing in Vegas as a show girl, and then afternoon jury put her on the sidelines from dancing. She joined. Hilton the hotel group in Egypt. So you went from Vegas back over to Egypt as a choreographer. And then when the tourism industry took a hit in Egypt, she and her husband found themselves unemployed with a small baby and looking for the next opportunity, which took her in a completely different direction back to her entrepreneur roots, joining a new industry, which is where I connected with her and what we'll learn about today. So that is one heck of a intranet. That is a life you've lived the life of like three people already. Um, please welcome the founder of Clever Touch Marketing and affiliate marketing group. Jenny Abu, uh, she's after I even was like practicing this name and now completely bluefin Jenny. Well, I got Jenny Dan Jenny Abu about. Yeah, that's me. All right. I'm sorry. I literally I'm like, all right, got this down. I even wrote it out and I just completely did a yeah. All right. Well, Jenny welcome. And so here's the first, so you are, uh, kind of dialing in from Egypt. What is it? Um, is that right? Yeah, I am, um, all the way from Sony Sharm. El Sheikh. So yeah, in the middle of the desert. Aye. Aye. Aye. I think we would hear the gamble if I was going to Google map that I didn't even so, uh, Sharm El Sheikh. Is that how you say shake and what is it in the middle of. Near the coast at all or where? Yeah. Yeah. We're basically on the course, it's like, it's one of the men kind of tourists cities, a Sharm. So you've got we're in south Sinai, which is basically, it's basically the farthest part of Egypt before you get to Israel. So that, that whole course is kind of, you've got Sharm El Sheikh, and then you've got, uh, Dahab and new whereby and TBA and then past there you get in Israel. So we're just, uh, yeah, we're basically, we're close to, we're close to Mount Sinai, which is where Moore's as part of the red sea and all of this cool historical stuff. So that's, that's where I am. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. All right. So a British national living in Egypt. Now you have two kids, not just the one. How old are you? They will be a three and six in the next two months. So yeah. Yeah. You got your hands full. I know, I know. Let me tell you. I have two kids and it doesn't get any easier as they get older is better, but I think it's even crazier. I don't know. It's brilliant boy, and girl. That's what I was. So as you can imagine, that's what I have as well. And yeah. And at first, when I first had them, they were like, oh, they're so cute. Now it's like, oh boy, they're like adults that want to do stuff. That they're crazy. Anyway. So I did mention, so this whole thing about Bollywood, we're in the, where is Bollywood exists? I know it's like India. I get that. But I mean, is there like in the states you think of Hollywood, it is in Burbank, California, right. But Mumbai is. Kind of the main that's where all the edge and season and the cast and directors and all of this kind of stuff are based in Mumbai, but the actually travel all over Egypt and outside. So Egypt, India, and, or outside of India as well to do movies and stuff like this. And the thing is with Bollywood. It's, you know, when you think of Bollywood, you do think of kind of the traditional Indian Bollywood, but actually the agencies that are in Bali. They provide all of the, the kind of talent for, um, like Western, um, movies and music videos and stuff that I happened to be shooting in India. So I did a lot of movies. I did a movie with, oh, what is his name? I'm going to forget it off me talking now, because I've been asked to say about it. Uh, Kiefer, Sutherland, dad, Donald Sutherland. That's his name? Yeah. I did a movie with Donald Sutherland and oh, what is it? Uh, now I'm going to forget everybody's name. You see? Cause I've been put on the spot. Um, the girl who was captain Marvel, she was in it to Bree somebody. Okay. Yes. Brie Larson. You want to think about, yeah, so yeah, and I did. The MTV awards when the war hosted in India and all of this kind of cool stuff. Yeah, it was, it was really good. Fun. Yeah, it was, it was, uh, it was interesting. It was interested mainly. I'll tell you, I'll tell you this, the, the truth kind of secret about Bollywood's. That's all I that's, if anything, that's what we seek out on the show is true. It's kind of that really ultimate Instagram life in the sense of everybody looks at the pictures on the movie sets and you're in these costumes and you've got all of the, you know, the sets and you're with all these stars and all this kind of store. And everyone's like, wow, you must be living the dream. It's awesome. And then at the end of the day, you got. Oh, Mortel, that's full of cockroaches and you've got a bucket for a shower. And like, literally you can go from, it's so crazy in India because there's such a wealth gap. So you can literally go from being in a five star, big name hotel with these movie stars to literally be in thrawn in like the middle of nowhere. And like I said, book it for a shower. I cock roaches all over the place. You don't want to close your eyes because God knows. Yeah. The wonderful stardom, right? Yeah. Like, well, I think to be honest, that's probably what. If those kinds of not just being based in India, know anybody who works in that kind of industry, you all literally live in out of a suitcase all the time. So it's, it's, it looks very glamorous, but it's, it's hard work. It's like, you know, we would shoot you shoot for 12 hours a day and you would go from quite often, you'd go from doing like a night shoot, which would be
kind of 6:00 PM or six in the morning. And then, you know, you'd finish that shoot. You'd get home at six in the morning and then there'd be like, okay, you've got a flight at eight to go to somewhere else and start shooting tomorrow. And so it it's, it's crazy. It's not something neat and do for a long period of time or like, I mean, I was with girls. The what on that for you usually do kind of six month contracts and now girls who were on their fourth and fifth time round. So that done six months had gone somewhere else on a cruise ship or whatever for six months and come back, I just did it the one. So I think I was too old to keep going back. I didn't have that kind of energy. So I was like, yeah, no, I think I'm going to pass. I'm going to run away with a Mexican saying, okay. Oh gosh. Well, I have a good friend who is from India, he and, uh, his wife and, um, and they love watching, you know, these Bollywood movies and, and I've watched a few of them with them and have seen, and it seemed like some of the real popular ones that have been popular here in the states anyway. And they're all very artistic and very showing a lot of dance stuff. It seems like going on. And so I'm, I'm just picturing you like, wow, you're in one of those really cool, you know, artsy, dancy, flashy kind of movies have fun. The funniest thing, probably to be honest. Right. I mean, obviously for us, if we, if we got to work with someone who was like a Western star, like I say, a movie star or a musician or whatever, that was great for us. But obviously a lot of the time you're working with the Bollywood stars, but it was really funny because to us, we don't know who the are, but like these guys that you're working with, it's like the Tom cruise of India, do you know what I mean? Like, you've literally got thousands of women outside, like, oh, these stars. And you're just like, I don't even know who this client's got. Never heard of him in my life. Yeah. It's the same with me when I'm walking into my office building the same thing. It really is, you know, people here in Ohio. Oh yeah. Randy. Um, yeah, right. Well, I will tell ya, you're telling these stories. So I, I lived in LA for a few years and I knew quite a few people in the industry as well. And it's similar to what you were saying, right? Is that. That they lived on the, or in the industry and when they would do stuff with so much different, you know, they they'd walked away from there and they'd just be like, just literally scraping by trying to, you know, like where am I going to be next week? And, , just a crazy lifestyle, I think, but any crazy, what's your craziest story out of it. And I got to say, this is what I say. I could talk with you about an hour prevalent, alone on the Bollywood, but any crazy, crazy Bollywood story. And then we'll move on. Cause I got to talk about the circus cause that I can't even get my head around that. Well, well, one that told me husband, and he didn't believe this because, uh, like obviously, because we're doing this kind of thing, we used to get invited or all these different industry parties. And like I say, I mean, half of these industry parties, we'd never heard of any of these people, but, you know, it was just like, okay, cool. And, um, and I always wore, I was walking or in this like, uh, like nightclub and there was, you know, like, oh, this big private VIP event. And this guy, this guy started talking to us and was like, oh, you know, had an American accent. And I was like, oh, okay, cool. And he was like chatting away and, and all of this kind of stuff. And I was like, oh right, nice to meet you, you know, as you do. And you know, we're a group of girls, this is we'll often got, uh, you know, a lot of attention, especially, you know, maybe as white as I am. I kind of stood out like a sore thumb in India as well. So we'd get a lot, a lot of people talk and then. And this guy walked away and I was like, oh, he was nice. And one of the girls I was with was a, do you know who that is? And I was like, nah, I've got no idea. And they're like, that's too. No. It's like, okay, I'll be talking to the guy for now. I had no idea who he was and he's like chatting away. Do you want to come to this private part? Yeah. Sounds great. No problem. Yeah. Awesome. And the scale that I was with was like, wow, look how you're taught new. And I was just say, I've got no idea who he is. I couldn't tell you now, what'd you say his name was taping? He's a rapper. He's like super famous for his day. And he was doing, he was doing some kind of promotion in India, but this is what happened a lot. Like we did a music video with air-con and people like this way, the what do you in promotions? Like obviously, cause I think when you're in the UK or the U S you don't really think about these stars doing promotions and all that, but obviously the deal and sort of like. You know, we would get kind of hired in to do all these kinds of things. And, um, this girl I was with was like this huge font. And I was just like, I had no idea who we were at this time until, so, so yeah. It's like w w uh, we did a few crazy things to be honest in, like, in India. It's just a crazy place that anyway, because like I say, I think because of the wealth gap and stuff as well, like we lived literally next to a swamp. I was like, princess for you on our insurance. Like, that's where we lived. And then you'd go to these places and it was just like, wow. So glamorous and you shoot on, on location. And we went, uh, uh, Jod poor and all like shooting on the roofs. I blew when you've got monkeys running. Why the idea when shoots and all of this, it's just, yeah. It's really something you have to say. I definitely think it's something everybody should go in there. If they've got the transport, it's on my list. I okay. I have to ask you one last question though, about the Bollywood thing. So you said, so you did, you did a six month contract. Is that what you said? You did one and in six months you did 300 movies. Oh my gosh. Yeah. You don't take yeah. There's no days off in both in Bollywood. Wow. Yeah, no, it's crazy. You lit really? Yeah. I mean, I did something like, let's just say I was scared to fly before I went to India and I did something like 52 flights or something while I was in India. Just crazy, like Eagle from one, uh, there was times where I would do a day shoot and do a night shoot and do a deer shoot. And like, so you're literally finished and worn and want to do another 12 hour shift for 36 hours and stuff like this. But because there's a lot of what you see in the movie or a music video, or wherever you see this one scene where maybe it's two minutes long and it's all chaos and the dancing and crazy, but that takes, you know, that can take three, 12 hour shoot just to shoot those ones. So a lot of the time you're sitting around in a costume and you're waiting and you've got to go and do the same thing over and over and over again. So, but, um, but yeah, it's definitely a worthwhile experience, uh, and just even going to India as a worthwhile experience for any, anybody caught India. Alright. Alright. So I did, I like we've got so much we can hit on, so I'm going to move forward though. So I'm going to hit today. I'm coming back to the circus. So you're not out of the circus stories yet. So tell us a little bit. Clever touch marketing, what it is that you're doing. And maybe just go back enough to say, like, when did you start clever touch marketing? Not don't do any of the backstory on the wise yet, but just like, when did you start tell us about your company, what you're doing right now? We started back in, I think it was 2017, 2017. Around or, uh, yeah, started out basically. I was freelancing anywhere and I kept getting asked to do a lot of freelance and I couldn't do, and I knew there was other women like myself who are, you know, British ex-pats living here. Maybe the world is similar to myself, married to an Egyptian, or, you know, that they'd been working prior to the, the Russian plane crash. Uh, they'd been working in tourism. There was lots of, you know, dive and instructors and all this kind of stuff living here. So I thought, oh, I could probably teach a couple of women how to do some of this stuff and give them some of the work. And then it was a case of, you know, I got a couple, a couple of ladies involved. And they toured a couple of more ladies told to call them all ladies. And then it was kind of like, I think we've got an agency here. So, uh, that's basically how it came about. I'll be honest with you. So yeah, so then w and my husband was already working in print advertising, so it just, he had his own company doing like local stuff here. So, uh, it was just made sense to kind of, it was like, well, you know, I'm already doing the logo and the print stuff, so why don't you do the kind of foreign digital stuff? Just kind of makes sense. So, so, yeah, so that's basically how it got started and, uh, has just grown until the day was still only worked with niche affiliate websites, um, because that's what I started out doing as a freelancer. And it's, it's something I love doing because we get to do every. I see, oh, what'd you in the content where during the essay or during the link building, which you, the PR, so it means that you get to kind of be a Jack of all trades. If you're late. Can I ask you a question here before we get too, too deep in it, explain for folks maybe that don't know you threw out a phrase, niche, affiliate websites. Can you talk about that? Explain that a little bit, I guess define it. And so basically, a, a niche affiliates, uh, SEO website is where it's mainly like a blog. What would be concert? You know, you would think obviously a traditional blog website, your mommy bloggers, or any of this kind of stuff. And what you tend to be doing is you'll be reviewing a project. So you're right. A lot of project reviews. You'll, you'll pick a niche specific niche, whether it's. Parent and pets, whatever, you know, whatever the niche is. There's literally anything you can think to buy. There's a niche for it. Yeah. So, and then, you know, you build your whole website around this niche. It's supposed to be basically an informational hub and you're letting every visitor who comes see our website, you're giving them all the information you possibly can about your specific niche. A lot of it will be, you know, informational that you're just, you just want to inform the reader, or maybe if you are doing something like a website about cats, you are this huge cat LaVar. You might do a lot of informational content about cartels, nutrition, and that kind of thing. And then at the same time, you're going to review. Litter boxes, cat food, cat litter, all of this kind of stuff. And that's how you earn your, your revenue basically. So by recommending these products, a lot of people do it with Amazon, but there is, you know, private affiliate networks out there as well. And basically you can earn commission by recommending certain products. So then when someone reads your blog and you know, you've got the crazy cat lady down the street is reading about the best cutlet boxes. Um, she'll follow the link that you said, this cat litter boxes Amir's and it's perfect for your 27 cats that live in your house. And, uh, and she's going to go on Amazon. She's going to buy that and then you're going to earn yourself a little commission. So, so that's basically the kind of the top and bottom of the niche affiliate model. And the thing that I love the most about it is pretty much anybody. Do it, and anybody can be successful with it, which is one of the reasons why we wanted to kind of stick with that. And we mainly work with people who are just starting their affiliate sites or people who have started a new one or people who maybe have bought one that hasn't been doing so well, or they've tried to start it themselves and it's hit a plateau. That's kind of where we come in and, and, uh, and worked with seminar. I think a lot of SEOs think that I'm crazy because I like working with new sites and most SEOs don't like do, and that's kind of my favorite thing. Um, because I mean, yeah, that's where you're laying the ground works or that's where you can help someone the most as far as I'm concerned. So, so yeah, so that's, that's kind of the niche affiliate model and, uh, that's basically. What we went with from all aspects. So it's interesting. So, so, um, thinking about this kind of working through this process, so I would assume you probably develop your own niche, affiliate websites for your own purposes as well. And I know there's a massive aftermarket for this stuff as well, you know, you'd develop it and then you go flip it once you've demonstrated it's got legs and is rolling. And that's probably truly where the big money is. And once you flip these things, but so do you, so if somebody were to come to you then, or to your agency with their own affiliates ID, you essentially then just take it over and do all of that SEO stuff for them or. Teach them how to do it, and then they do it themselves. Or do you do both kind of models? Both. We'll do a bit of board. So, um, as kind of, as clever torch has developed most recently, we actually kind of orphaned, um, a kind of secondary agency. It's all, you know, it's all under the same umbrella. I feel like, but what we wanted to do was have clever torches, kind of a single service agency. So that's where someone would come and, you know, maybe look at press release or link building or content or whatever, where the just, they just want to hire, hire in an agency, you know, fulfill that. And then what we did was we started the affiliate market and experts, which is that's based around building full sites or, you know, someone who maybe they've just done a course like or authority hacker, or my deputies, a fill it lab or something like this. They've learned how to do it. The don't know really where to start. They want to get going. Then they can come to the affiliate Martin experts. And we do, you know, we can build a custom site for them depending on what they want. We can manage full sites for them. And we can also do we also build start, uh, sites that we can sell that have already, we've already done the ground work. We've, you know, we've done the first kind of batches of content. We've started getting the first lot of traffic on there. Um, so basically they can, they can cut out that kind of initial hard work and just start building on it and start in commissions. And through the affiliate Martin and experts, we actually started a free course called sir park, which, uh, basically kind of, it's kind of like an introduction, the, a courses like. Uh, the affiliate lab and stuff like this, but after COVID happened, there was a lot of people that are new back in the UK that had family businesses and that what you, and, you know, I had been doing these businesses for years and years and years, and they just got closed down and the didn't know anything about affiliate sites didn't realize that they had so much knowledge. So actually they were the perfect kind of person that, you know, you can write the content yourself, you can do all of this. So we did saw, uh, asked a few essentials that are new. I kind of twisted their arms to come in and, and help us out. So we were really super pack, uh, just about a month ago, actually, um, totally free. And the whole idea was just to basically lay the groundwork of, is this module. As a business model, right? For you before you start investing money in something like the affiliate lab that you weigh, it tells you from start to finish how it get gone and start buying, buy in USA and all of this kind of stuff. We wanted to do something for people who basically didn't understand what niche affiliate essay or was to let them know, you know, is this a, is this business model a good choice for you before you start kind of lean down? Yeah. Your finances and things like this. So, so yeah, so we'll do a bit of everything. We'll have the single services for people who just want, uh, you know, they just want a team to do the link building, or they want a reliable team to do that content or whatever. And then we'll have, uh, the kind of affiliate Morgan and experts say, which, like I say, that's still quite new. We're still building it up as we go along, but we'll have our star sites. And would you have full site management? So if someone will have a lot of clients over the years who, you know, the developed multiple sites have got now kind of a portfolio that they're building on and they just don't have time. They just don't have time to manage everything. So. The need someone like us, who knows what they're doing and can do the arrange, right. We're going to have the content then when we're going to do this link building and so on and so forth. So would you, what kind of, when it comes in niche affiliate, SEO, where literally the ads, anything you need, we do it's and you're kinda the niche of SEO a little bit as well, because you're just really are focusing on that affiliate business. So, uh, you mentioned the three. Yeah. So you mentioned the free course. Um, folks can go get a set right on your website? Uh, yeah. Well, we've got links to it on the clever touch website, which martin.com. Martin experts.com, but it also has its own website, which is sir pack.com. So you can go on any of those and they're all connected. You'll find what you want from one, one or the other. So yeah. Got it. Got to do those internal links in that LinkedIn. So, yeah. All right. All right. So I want to be sure we get those things and we'll have links to all of that stuff in our show notes. And so folks can, uh, can go off and find you there. So that's pretty exciting. So you mentioned, um, which I thought was great, and I want to touch on this a little bit later in the show as well, but is your team all ladies? They're women? Yeah. We're not all ladies. We are about 80% ladies. There is some gentlemen within the team, but most of the gentlemen who are in the team actually, or related to the ladies. So my dad works with work as well. It's very family oriented. Yeah. My dad was, he worked in, uh, education for all of his life. So he now works as, or a senior editor is being wasteful for about three years. And we also have a couple of guys who are. I've trained doing some of the se or say to, or husbands of women who work with women and things like this. So yes. Or would you want to have a huge amount of, uh, gentlemen, we are 80% women and all of where management have always been women. All right. Well, I do want to follow that path a little bit, but before we go down that road, I have to take a step back further. So before Clever's Bollywood to the Mexican circus, right? Because this is still just a, I can't get past this until we talk about it a second. It's seriously a Mexican circuits. So what in the world? I've my imagination is just running crazy with this thing. So tell us about that. How in the world did you even make that transition? Well, basically I finished Bollywood's I had also. After Bollywood, I had done the middle east, so I'd been around the middle east dancing. Um, and then I'd went home for the Christmas period. So I'd gone back to the UK. And the funny thing is when you travel, but anybody who's done a lot of traveling, you, you think when you initially go aware that you're going to come back and so much is going to have changed, but what you realize is that you combine. Everybody's lives have gone on as normal without in everybody. Everything's the same. Everyone's still doing the same things. They've got the same job. So it becomes very easy to get bored very quickly once you get fuck. Cool. So I think I'd been home for about two weeks and I was like, yeah, I've had me holiday now. I need to go somewhere else. Um, and a girl who had been, uh, in India, she wasn't in India with me at the time. It's one of those things where the, because the do six months and six months in six months, you know, somebody you've worked with every girl that comes in is when one girl goes out. So basically everybody you've worked with has worked with other people and so on. So you get to know people's names, you know, you know, of people and things like that. And one of the girls who had been in India before me, who I knew of, um, Joaquin connected on Facebook or something like this, um, she was actually doing the recruitment for the Mexican circus and she was recruiting a lot of dancers or a center over me shore real. Um, and obviously she has heard of me as well from, from India store. So, yeah. So then, um, I landed that job. I didn't run a where technically there was a contract and everything. It was all a book board, but I remember the time. I had called me, me, dad. And I was like, because I was living in some temporary accommodation as I wasn't staying in the UK for very long. So I was like, I don't have a printer. I need you to print out this contract for this new job. I hadn't told him where it was, what it was doing, nothing was that I need, I need you to print out this contract and he called a sentiment over and he had called. My mama was like, um, she's running away with a sick I went, I went off with the elephants and the camels and all the rest of them got talking to create or to, I can only imagine. I can only imagine as a dad of my daughter and like, dad, can you print out this contract? I've got to get it signed off. And I look at it and I'm like, you're what, what are you doing? Oh my gosh, exactly. I'm like, what are you doing? Why are you going to be a clown? So did you just then tour all over Mexico? Uh, no, it was it's in the U S or put it all live the, the Latin and Hispanic, uh, kind of area. So actually I went to Donna, Texas, uh, that was where I did all the trainers. So I went actually to do a lot of choreography. So I stayed for about three months until all of the kind of choreography for the show and everything was up and running. I did it the initial two hours. And then, um, and then, uh, I left them, uh, to continue without a yeah. So, but it was, yeah, so it was basically. All the trainer was drawn in Donna, Texas, and then it was tour and kind of Texas and the west coast and the east coast and the do it for like a full year it's, that's another thing that is like, that is a hard life. And it was really, it was really strange for us because when you do dance contracts, normally, you know, if you do like a cruise ship or anything like this, that the dancers are kind of the talent. If you're late, that's late. Everyone's like, oh wow. The dance as well. Like, you know, they've got so much scale and blah, and you go to a circus and you are the least talented person in the whole. Please because all, you know, the, the people who are in the serious life, that the third, fourth generation, right. When this crazy story, like even the horses were more, their dance routines were about other now. So like literally at the bottom of the wrong, like, I couldn't believe it. They had, the horse has come out and the horses are dancing crack of a whip in the spinning round and stand on back legs. And I was like, wow, we're really all the least talented people here. So, well, I don't like, so, I mean, when you go in the circus, so you did some initial, I, you know, so my experience where the circus or something like that, they kind of come in to a place they're there for like two or three days maybe. And then they pitched the tent and they're off to the next. Yeah. So it's you literally living in like trailers and you get, you get, um, you know, you go somewhere, the tent goes up in like one day they have everybody who's obviously they have a technical team that gets involved all hands on deck, uh, get the tent up and then you have your last day. Usually it's like a week. Do you do kind of a week? And that's the thing is kind of a, a hard, a hard life because your only days off are your travel is so, like, it's only when you're going from one city to another, that you have your ideas off. So, you know, you pitch the tent all hands on deck, and then it's a case of, you know, two shores a day, three shores at the weekend. And then. The 10 comes down within a matter of hours. It's like, okay, at last shore, everybody out costumes out 10 down, and then, you know, you've got maybe two or three days off whale, but you know, your city is off, you're traveling somewhere else. Right. We can't even do your laundry. I don't even know. Okay. It's like, yeah, it's, it's, it is a really hectic lifestyle. Like I said, if you know, for doing like a contract or something, it's great. But to me, I really don't know. I mean, we had people in the circus who, like I said, third and fourth generation and the had families that had kids with them, like. Young kids, the, my five, four, and five-year-olds even in the tree last week, them and getting them prepared to be the next generation, the next generation of circus people. So you, you finished out then at the Mexican circus, you're in the state. So that makes sense to me. Now I'm kind of putting together your timeline and then you'd, you ended up then in Vegas as a show girl in Vegas did a little bit of yeah. Some feathers and sparkles. Yeah. And then I'm only going to make an assumption here because you eventually got to Egypt. So I'm thinking you met your husband in Vegas and Egypt and came back to Asia. Yeah. So I injured myself while I was in the states. I dislocated my hip. Which as you can imagine as a dancer is probably not the best, really painful as well. It was super painful. So I dislocated behaved, gave that enough time, a time to rest. And then, but when I was trying to get back into the dancing, basically every day, Every time I went to do something technical, the hip would pop out and pop back in, and it was just became very apparent that this is just only going to get worse. So it was like, okay, we need to step back and rethink. So I went back to the UK again, surprisingly parents just turned on the door, like I'm here. And then, yeah, I've got a contract all over in Egypt to work as a choreographer rather than a dancer. So. It's you know, standard shower people rather than doing the physical exertion myself. Um, and the, I went to work for like a chain hotel group, the Hilton hotel group. And my husband was actually working there as the coordinator for the, for, um, all of the entertainments, or he was the one who said which night, which Dunn's team was going where, and which singer was going where and doing all of that kind of stuff. So we met that's where we met. Okay. Now does Mr. Alba abou a buyer? Does he work in clever touch marketing as well? Does it do. Is the official owner of private slash market. And so what he does, obviously all of our kind of Arabian clients, and we're still deal, we still do a lot of local work. Would you print work and stuff like this with local clients? So he, you know, he's in charge of all of that size, which is even though it's one thing it's totally separate, I have no idea what they're doing and he doesn't step in really with what we do at all. So, so yeah, so technically I'm just the face. Uh, he's the, he's the on-page, uh, legal, legal owner and everything. Um, and yeah, and I'm the PR person. So as a, uh, um, a married couple running a business together, does that create. Issues at all. Are you guys usually on the same page or what's that? Yeah, I say, I mean, some names, I think it does because obviously I think just because of the cultural differences, there's a lot of differences in terms of style of how well management managed staff is probably the biggest thing, because obviously, you know, our, with all of the, kind of the British, the British and Americans and the way you came to handle staff and how you should do things is totally different, how things are done here. Um, and what, you know, Egyptian stuff I used to and all of that kind of stuff. So, you know, there'll be times when I'm more of the kind of, uh, what's, what's the best way to put it. Probably like in all, very where, you know, a big team effort and we're all. You know, high fives and wild dawns and all of this kind of software in Egypt, it's, it's a lot stricter than the kind of regime of work is, you know, everybody knows what they're doing. Everybody knows that place. It's, it's like that. So some names, I think he thinks I'm a little bit too, too soft and friendly with this at this stop probably. But I think that's just really a very cultural thing. It's just, it's just how that they used to do and things he has, or, but other than that, we're usually a, each of you then kind of has your set of strengths that you work with and seems to probably work well together. I'm guessing. Yeah. Well, most definitely. I mean, I think that, to be honest, that's why it works really well with him. He, he works really well with the clients and kind of places like Dubai and Jordan and all these kinds of places because it's, you know, it's culturally and everything. It's very similar. So it's, it works very well that way. And then obviously, you know, The kind of British bond and all of this kind of stuff. So I do quite well with, he'll leave you with the crazy Brits and Americans. It's pretty fun. All right. So Jenny, it is that time. now I do know because you're from the UK, you may not know a lot about baseball. You're going to be testing it, but it's that time it's a 17 he'd stretch to get it. We take a little a departure from our conversation. We talked a little bit about baseball and I know for you, it's probably, um, more around the crickets and rounders. I'm guessing versus. Baseball. So, so because of that, I'm gonna, I'm gonna really just give you a lob here. I'm this is going to be such an easy hit for you. Okay. All right. Okay. Yeah, I could see she's a little nervous, but all right. All right. So this is really, is just going to be kind of a yes or no or true or false question. All right. So this is, this is easy and, you know, my teams does such a great job. They pull stuff, you know, kind of relative to the guest. And so this is really about Egypt and baseball. And is there a connection? All right, so here's the question. Is there true or false? Yes or no. Is there a connection of ancient Egypt and the history of basically. I don't know, but I'm going to say yes, only because since I've lived here, I found out that ancient Egypt is had the hand in way more things than I ever thought. So I'm going to go. Yes, I could be wrong. Very good. You get a dinger right there. You hit it out of the park way to go. Yes. Yes. So evidently, uh, I had no idea about this as well, but there is a thing called batting the ball, uh, evidently that they have uncovered and, and I'll, I'll say this and I'm sure I'll butcher this, but it's seeker. Uh, was in a Gypson bat, the ball game, uh, played by Egyptian pharaohs and they had their priests as catchers, uh, evidently and significantly, this game had certain physical and, uh, the madic similarities to modern day American baseball and in certain ways might be understood as the ancient precursor to baseball and soccer. Yeah, I find that it's really, it's funny because since I lived here, I found out so many things that are similar stories to that. I found out that the first ever standup comedy was done in ancient Egypt for the ferrules. And they also had their own version of chess called Senate, which was basically like a chess board and stuff like this. So there's so many things that, that really wouldn't surprise us because the seed have had the hand in everything there, the Pharaoh's soil. Yeah. Well, I love it. And we're talking to ancient Egypt, right? So this is like 1460 BC where thousands of years ago. Um, so this is crazy. Well, so Jenny, it did well, you know, it was a yes or no, but I think you took a good logic approach to it. All right. So let's get back into it. Jenny, we are talking about your affiliate market. I do want to hit on that. So you talk about, you know, niche, a very specific kind of affiliate marketing. Is there any kind of a hot trend or, you know, really something popular right now that people wouldn't think about that would be popular that you're seeing like, wow, you know, we're building this stuff and it is going to. Typically to be honest, it's like, not necessarily like that you get a lot of the SIM, you get a lot of the same niches comment through that are kind of easy to go for that, you know, like outdoors is a big one, like come in and prep and survival would do a lot of, um, a lot content and stuff for those kinds of niches. Um, and you get your typical parent and all of this kind of stuff. Um, one that's doing quite well. It's getting more popular as the world changes, I think is kind of the sustainable living. So, you know, keeping your own chickens and all of this kind of stuff, which a lot of people don't think about, but obviously with global warming and all that kind of stuff, a lot more people are getting involved in the kind of sustainable lifestyle. So that's, that's probably one that's doing quite well. Um, but to be honest, one thing that I usually advise people against is actually going, yeah, Something that's brand new hot. And, you know, like, because a lot of the time they can kind of fall flat, especially a lot of people jump into them thing and all that, the newest thing that that's going to make as Lords of money, but a lot of people with less experience kind of don't do. When I do a lot of talks, I talk about Cain and long-term keyword research and looking at, you know, your keywords for sort of three to five years, just to make sure your niche is a business that you can actually build up to that point. And a lot of people don't want to think about the fact that, you know, is like vape and, and things like this when they became really popular, like, is that something that VI is going to be viable? Long-term. Yeah. So usually I tend to try and encourage people to steer away from the newest hotness thing. You know, it's goal was something that is kind of proven to work is always a good strategy, but my kind of top tip really would be because if you think about, you know, fitness parent and have been done the debate on a desk in also, you've always got a kind of try and look for something that is, you know, that a niche within a niche, if you like something that you can be the best at, because at the end of the day, you're fighting for keywords on it. You're fighting for that, that those positions and stuff like this. So obviously the less competition you can have the better if it's going to be, uh, you know, a viable niche. So my top tip, which is going to sound funny, but anything that people are embarrassed about is where the money is, right. If you don't want to go to the doctor and you want to Google. Uh, project that's that's, that's your weird, right? That is so funny. You say that because I had, uh, Holly Starks on the show, I don't know, a few months ago. And she was kinda saying the same thing. It's like, listen, it's the embarrassing things that are really. Yeah. And not, not even necessarily, I suppose, embarrassing, but just things that are, like I said, that, you know, other, the things that you would only Google, right? I'm not going to call up my friend and say, Hey bill, can you tell me about what do you do for toenail, fungus? Right. So like, you know, things like, oh, can I Google lists? Like, those are the, those are the things. I do really well. Things are, people are into, in secret that the little kinks and things like this, these are ones that are, you know, that's where the money is. I think, I think Holly did quite well with something like hemorrhoid cream or something. Yeah. So something like that, that's where, you know, yeah. Niche within a niche, then they're going to be, you know, if you can rank for things like that, then, you know, you're laughing really, because, I mean, like I said, these are the kinds of things are people are only going to Google and like the only one to buy online the door, really one people that just want that nice brown Amazon and cool. Right. I don't want to be like Cod, you know, looking at the shelves in my local drug store, you know, by anybody which people don't tend to think about. But honestly that is where I've seen a lot of stuff and things like we had things, we had things, other things. Really not necessarily, you know, we're talking about hemorrhoids and things like that, but just we at niches, I mean, a couple of niches that I've seen do read well was a warn about serial killers, right? So our website, all about serial killers, like, you know, advertising the documentaries, the books, the, and the amount of merchandise on Amazon, by people who love serial killer documentaries is like crazy. So things like that, which you wouldn't necessarily think of. Um, and another one that did really well was pet deaths. So like pet funerals relate little turn, and it turned into our pets, your pets ashes in a diamond necklaces and, and things like this. Make crazy. Cause people love their pets. I mean, saw, I haven't done heard of that before, but wow. Okay. So how about, can you share, I obviously don't give any detail of anything, but what, what has been your biggest success? So like, just to give people, like we were talking about this and dollars and cents kind of thing, I mean, are you talking like, yeah, we can do a site and it makes a thousand dollars a month or are we talking like yeah, much bigger. I mean, it give you the SEO on syrup. It depends. Um, but, well, obviously depending, but I'm just saying like with your experience, so, you know, just to not say the site, but what has been your biggest success? Yeah, I've seen, I've seen the reports. Let's put it that way without giving any details. I've seen the reports of sites that are me. Six figures a month. Wow. You're going to succeed. And that's what I love about it. And we've got clients that are built sites for probably this time last year. And within a year, they're making kind of five figures a month already within a year. And that's, that's a really basic, that's not the word I'm talking about. There is that's an Amazon, those are Amazon sites. So that's not the highest commissions and the niches that are selling accessories and things like this. So that also not hugely high ticket price items. So if you think about that in the space of a year, doing on a standard, you know, let's see. Say something like photography, if you are sticking with, you know, you're sticking with Amazon so that the commissions aren't huge, 4% something around there. And then your ticket price is not masses. If you're doing even your camera's is kind of like a hundred walk between three and four, if you're talking high ticket. Um, but a lot of people are doing lenses and all. Items and things like that. And you instill within not within the year, get a place where really you could, you could use that as a full-time income instead of a traditional nine to five, still eight feet, and imagine kit changing. That is something that is high ticket items where you're talking. You know, $500, uh, uh, a ticket. And then obviously using private affiliates where you're looking at 10 or 15% easy commission, then you can obviously do the math as to where you're going to be with that. So it is kind of, if you hit the nail on the head with a niche, that's kind of what, you know, that's one of the reasons why I like working with new sites because that's where people tend to go wrong. Is that niche selection, the initial keyword research and stuff like this. If you get that right in the beginning, it's really easy to kind of build it up and then keep that mint and score. And just as long as you've got consistency with, you know, you're always doing your content, you're always doing your link-building and all of this kind of stuff, just yet rinse and repeat. Then it's kind of a recipe for success. If you like. Wow. That's fantastic. All right. So I want to ask and dig in a little bit onto your entrepreneurial spirit. So clearly where you are today. You've had some great successes. You continue to have success. I find, as we've talked with entrepreneurs, every episode here, you know, some things that I find common, you know, that you do as well as the. No fear to pivot in your life. And I mean, we have fun and we talk about, you know, the Bollywood and the Mexican circus and this and that, that you've been involved with that is literally a lifetime people. It really though, is that you just really embraced change and you've at least from my perspective, you know, kind of looking in here and you are very comfortable. It appears to be like, Hey, we're going to pivot. We're going to do something different. One thing that I would confidently say about myself is that I'm the opposite of most people that actually like change re like, you know, most people late the routine the later be, you know, like it's funny because my parents are probably the complete opposite of me. Like they've lived in their house in the UK for 35 years. They've never mauled the, you know what I mean? Like the, the very, they're not comfortable with change at all where, um, probably the complete opposite, uh, uh, probably like change too much. I don't, I'm the kind of person that even, even my company website, it probably gets a facelift every six months because I just get bored, you know? And like, I really do like change. I like, um, and I think, especially for me, it probably is an entrepreneurial spirit in the sense of, I like start new things. I like, you know, being involved in that kind of side of things, like at the minute with the club. That's probably why we kind of started, um, the affiliate Martin and experts just because it got the point where there's management in place, the staff in place. And really, I'm not as hands-on in the building things up anymore as I used to be. So it's for me. That's the exciting part. And I think to be honest, that's why I kind of fell in love with SEO as well, because it changes so often. So there's always something new happening. There's always something to keep on top of. And that's what I really like about it, which is, uh, which is probably why. I love SEO. And it's probably why I used to love the dance as well. I used to, like when I went to the circus for me, like, like Bollywood was great because you're always doing something different, right? Like today you're doing one more week tomorrow. You're going to do a different morning. Where were the circus? I don't think. George be in there for longer than I was, because once the Shore's in place, it's the same short Dan Dow. And for me, that was just, yeah, this is not exciting and not funny. So I think, yeah, I think, um, I think for me, I, I really do have that kind of, um, that's somewhere within, this is just, I do actually really like change. My husband knows very well because I Kia is probably our, uh, on our speed dial list because I'm always chased home because I just, I kinda, you know, I kind of just look at the same color walls for too long and things like this, even in your home, like, and your husband's nightmare right there, new furniture, not another pink color police. Honestly, I just turned out near the D w we bought a house this time. Last year we've been in there and I turned it on the other day and I was just sitting in the living room and I was. I want to play at these walls block and this ain't nor, nor not again, nor please just an off-lease. And I was like, no, not really. Do you not think black basin? Yeah. It's just like, oh, here she goes again. Look, it's been a year in the, and to shin by, so I love your personality because yes, obviously I think you embrace change, but something else I think is even a little bit deeper. You and I are similar, I think in, in an instance that I think you enjoyed learning stuff, new, you, you enjoy learning the new things and, and, um, kind of that like, wow, this is new and exciting. I want to dig into this and, you know, and figure it out. But the other aspect with that though, is that you've had to recognize because of one reason or another that you had to pivot. And whereas sometimes I think some small business owners sometimes are, you know, they, they're afraid to. To like extend, expand, pivot, you know, get out of their comfort zone a little bit. And, and it's sometimes when that happens, they begin to struggle a little bit. But, uh, and I think, um, a real lesson through your experiences really is, you know, embrace, you know, those changes in some of those obstacles, you know, that you face, I mean, you've, you've been injured, you've had, you know, uh, economic challenges that have forced you to do other things. And instead of like, just digging in, like I'm going to suffer through this and figure it out, you know, you're like, okay, what else can I do? And you're like, okay, now what, and you embraced that and moved on to, you know, and it's always brought you to like new and exciting and different kinds of things led to open new doors for you. Right. That's the thing, I mean, that, that's one of the things, um, I mean, When I was thinking about putting the circuit calls together, that was one of the reasons why I did it. Just because I could say so many. Going through those problems with COVID. And like, we had a guy that came to us, um, who wanted a site say who was a dentist and basically couldn't practice as a dentist during COVID, but he's got, he had so much knowledge and there is a niche for dental websites, you know? And it was just like, if people could, you know, have that, it is, it can't be scary, but I think you just kind of have to have that. I've just got that mentality of just like, we've just got to do, you've just got to do what you've got to do. Do you know what I mean? I mean, I've had positions. I mean when I had me done school in the UK many, many years ago, um, I was still young and I probably made a lot of mistakes anyway, but I was working with the local government. Um, and it was completely funded, which is probably a mistake that I made to rely on. That was the sense that the, they would pay me the paid for the premises and everything so that I could teach local children for free, who came from, you know, low economic backgrounds and things like this, because the idea was to keep them off the streets, stop them getting into drugs and things like this, give them activities instead. But of course, at some point that funding ran out and it was a case of we're not going to fund this anymore. And you know, when you've been bringing kids for four or five years for free, you can't turn around at them and say, okay, from tomorrow, it's going to cost you this much lesson and, and stuff like this. So I essentially lost the work that I had. Um, and in return I lost, I lost my home. I lost everything. I was. Uh, literally became homeless. I had to go and ask if there was anything I could do. And the local government told us to call a women's shelter or, and that was about it. And so I've said, okay, well, I'm going to go out with different coronary and work there instead then, because it was just, you're going to have to do something else, just going to have to get it done. And the same as slate. I mean, obviously when the Russian plane crash happens here in Egypt, it was a similar thing. I literally had my daughter in on the 15th of October. And I think the Russian plane crash happened on the 22nd. And like the tourism was over a hundred percent. So it was just, and for anybody who's a parent, I think there is a different level of when you've got the responsibility of it's not just you anymore. Uh, baby, to look after you've got kids to look after you just, it is a case of, or the, you just have to get a daughter, you've got to do what you've got to do, you know? And, um, and yeah, and I think that's how things evolve as well. I mean, we've had like any business, we've had difficulties. We had difficulties really recently with, you know, people try some guy who was a competitor. I was deliberately trying to kind of, uh, bring the business down. And I think a lot of businesses get that, especially if you're a brick and mortar business, you'll get that competition. And I had that when I was a dancer as well, you know, like the look of dance schools coming on, each of us territory turns in a west side story, you know? So, but you just got to, I think it's one of those things where if, if you're scared to kind of pivot some names that can lead you to getting stuck in the same kind of vicious cycle, if you like, rather than. Stan and security because it's not always a secure environment, if that makes sense. So I think if, uh, you know, if things need to change, you have to just kind of tit that head on and, and, you know, hope that you get your experience and the knowledge that you've got to help you kind of muddle through it, if nothing else. And if nothing more, it's a learning experience in itself in, or like you can see what's gone wrong and met those improvements and so on and so forth. So interesting. I like this. We had a guest on the show might have been about a year ago, even. And he talked about now he was in the technology industry, um, specifically. Had an interesting perspective on this, on this change and pivot his belief was, and what he did was that he said, I just expect things to change. I expect to pivot every 18 months because that's just how life is. And he said, when I, when I, when I changed my mentality to that, then when things happen, I was much more prepared for those instances than when they kind of snuck up on you and hit you by surprise. So, in thinking about that, what, what do you see, are you preparing for your next pivot or what do you see around. A hundred percent, I think, I think probably obviously in kind of tech and, and especially where an SEO and stuff like this, I think that's kind of part of the, part of the job anywhere, because it's an ever-changing that ever changing industries. Do you know what I mean? And it's one of those things where if, if you don't change, you're going to get left behind. Basically you have to, you have to change things and even just, yeah. You know, how you work and how. Even things like, how are you pricing? I mean, we were looking at late link-building, for example, we've been running a, like a horrible service for years, uh, before it was a thing. And we used to do it just so hard for years who were, you know, um, who would just answer queries every day for clients or stuff like this. And then as it got more popular, more and more people started doing their own HARO services and they were charging per link. So like for as an example, we've had to completely change our model to be able to keep up with the competition, because obviously it's getting such a saturated pool. It's one of those things where, you know, if you don't keep up with the competition, you will get left behind. It will be a case of, you know, if, if people are charging differently, charging higher prices and things like this, they can afford to pay different people to do things that, you know, in the end of the day, you're going to fall behind and you won't be able to provide that service for the client anymore. So even things like that, you just have to be, you have to be all Intuit. The world is changing. I think a lot of kind of brick and mortar businesses is probably in this day and age, especially with COVID is probably one of the ways where they got hit the most, because there is so much online where a lot of traditional businesses are still kind of behind on an online stage, you know, like maybe they've got a website, but they don't know what SEL stands for. Never mind and yet see, or so the amount of people I've heard a C R at, or really need anything to do with Google and stuff like this who have got traditional businesses. I think that's where, you know, you've got to have that open mindset because just everything's changing around you all the time. Like I say, if you don't, if you, if you're not willing to change with it, you'll you will get left behind at some point. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good advice right there. Good words. All right. So. It is the bottom of the nights here. This is a, at the point of the show here where we're kind of winding down and I ask every guest this, because you come with such, uh, an incredible background of experience. What advice do you have for rookies in the game? You know, those folks just starting out in business, maybe they're already in business. Um, what kind of advice do you have for those folks? Uh, to help them. Well, I mean, when I do a lot of mentoring with younger women who are just getting an SEOs or, um, because I'm part of a group called women in tech SEO, which is fantastic, and they do a lot of mentoring programs. So it's something that I tend to, you know, I tend to give advice to people quite often. And one of the main things I can, I can. Thing is really important that a big mistake that people make across the board, not just in SEO. So I think that's probably the best, best advice is just to find your niche really, to not spread yourself too thin, because that's what I see a lot of people do. And, you know, like even when they have, like I say, I have mentor in sessions with, with younger women who are trying to get an se or, and they're just trying to do everything. And then what happened. Yes, service and stuff like that tends to end up substandard because you're spreading yourself too thin. Like when we started, we started just with content and then we started adding in the other services and we've always been just Phoenicia affiliate sites, or we're always a niche within a niche. So for me, it's a lot better to, you know, find that area that you can do really, really well with and provide a really good service and just stick to that rather than trying to do everything and end up offering substance of standard, because that's how you're going to, you know, it doesn't matter whether you've got a brick and mortar business or an online business, there's nothing better than word of mouth. If you like, in terms of marketing, that's always going to be your big. Mark and tool is your reputation and your word of mouth saw. If you can provide something great for people, then they're going to tell other people about it so better, uh, do that with one, one service even than trying to do too much. And it's saying, well, the rule cable, you know, I wouldn't recommend so. Yeah. Yeah, that would be my advice. Good advice. I love too, that you're working with other women in the industry. I know we mentioned Holly Starks. I, we had this conversation, uh, in our episode as well or showed that, , you know, how few women are in our industry, in the SEO or digital marketing world. And, uh, yeah. And she had mentioned like, yeah, I go to some of these conferences and I may be like, you know, one or two women in a field of a hundred guys here, you know, I'm the only one at the table. Has that been hard for you as well? I was really lucky that I found a women in tech SL uh, that's like community that was actually started by a reach our barley. And she's actually F she's the opposite of me. She's an Egyptian woman who moved to the UK and I'm on the opposite end. So, but, but women in tech, or they've got more than 2000 members now, so it's, it's women only work in SEO. Um, and the do a lot of mentor programs and they do internal training and, and, you know, webinars and all of this kind of stuff. And actually find in that community was something that made me want to do things like this. Like do podcasts and stuff like this, because everything that I was seeing, you know, I mean, I always tried to stay up to date with everything. So I'm always following webinars and podcasts and, you know, Watching the SEMrush webinars and things, but everything I seen was, you know, 90% of the time it's skies, you know, like an, all your main influencers, you might dig it easier, create combos, you know, the romance or so I was, I was kind of like, Hmm, I don't really know if I want to put myself out. Uh, my amongst a bunch of guys really, because, you know, that's what a lot of the time you see, but, you know, finding a community that is women that really helped me as well, just to get a little bit of confidence to be like, you know what, all right. And I know just as much as these blocks or why not stand next to them and talk about something as well from a woman's perspective. So, I mean, talking about change, that's what that's my next goal, uh, is actually, uh, kind to get on a whole lot of new female clients in terms of like for building websites and stuff. Because I think certainly for a lot of women, um, a lot of women that have been hit not only being hit by COVID, but you know, 90% of the team, as more as it's also want to stay at home and be with our kids and stuff like this. And I think affiliate SEO is one of those things where. An opportunity to have the best of both worlds in all. Cause it's something you can do from home with young children. Um, I'm the poster child for that. So, uh, so yeah, so that, that would be that's my next kind of goal is to try and, you know, get on a cane to all female client base. If I caught it and help a lot of women to get in a niche, affiliate SEO and building their own sites and building their own six figure businesses from our kitchen table. So that would be, yeah. Yeah. Well, I love, I love her. You're going, I love where you're going with it and uh, you know, all the best success for you. I'll tell you. It's so fun. Just getting to know you. Thank you so much for being on the show. It's been great. Thank you very much for having us. I bring an exile. Come on with the, uh, yeah. Perfect podcast voice. I love listening to well, I appreciate it. Yes. And so let me as well. Uh, again, you can get, um, Jenny's free course., she's got multiple websites so you can hit it on, but I'll just give the one, uh, for right now, clever touch marketing.com. You can find a link to, , her other, uh, websites on that main site as well., but you can get the free, , niche building, , affiliate marketing course right there as well, which is great. And again, just thank you so much, Jenny, for being on the show. It's been a lovely, I don't know what you say. And my daughter likes to try to speak like she's from the UK. And so like, we really int you know, I'm horrible at it, but yeah, but thank you for being on the show. It's really. Yeah, it's been, it's been really good to be on and have a, have a nice all around chat, not just about SEO. So yeah, it's, uh, it's been fun. Good. Good. All right. Well, that's the ballgame. Hey, thanks for joining us today, everybody. And if you like our show, please tell your friends subscribe and review, and we'll see around the ballpark. Running the Bases with small businesses is brought to you by 38 digital market. A digital marketing agency, committed to client growth with lead generation higher conversions and increased sales connect with us today@thirtyeightdigitalmarket.com.