Running the Bases today with David Wilde, Founder, CEO and Creator of Wilde One Films. David Wild is a digital media producer who has created five feature films, a crime series, and dozens of short films. He began acting in his thirties to meet girls and eventually ended up in London to attend an acting school. He has since learned how to make a movie, from coming up with an idea to doing the marketing work to getting the finance. Now, he is working on a novel based on a movie he produced for the TV series Crime Lord.
Very excited about today’s Guest. A TRUE CREATIVE, Our guest today takes our Small Business Genre in a new Space for our Podcast! While he does run a Traditional Digital Media Agency, His PASSION lies with his company Wilde One Films. He has made five feature films, a crime series, and dozens of short films, and he has a novel coming out at the end of the year. His works have been shown on Amazon Prime & Apple TV to name a few. His IMDB Page lists him with 26 Producing Credits, 27 Editing Credits, 25 Writing Credits, 19 Acting Credits and 17 Cinematography Credits.
David’s Podcast - Wilde World
Watch - Crime Lord
Randy’s Favorite Baseball Movies:
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Running the Bases today with David Wilde, Founder, CEO and Creator of Wilde One Films. David Wild is a digital media producer who has created five feature films, a crime series, and dozens of short films. He began acting in his thirties to meet girls and eventually ended up in London to attend an acting school. He has since learned how to make a movie, from coming up with an idea to doing the marketing work to getting the finance. Now, he is working on a novel based on a movie he produced for the TV series Crime Lord.
Very excited about today’s Guest. A TRUE CREATIVE, Our guest today takes our Small Business Genre in a new Space for our Podcast! While he does run a Traditional Digital Media Agency, His PASSION lies with his company Wilde One Films. He has made five feature films, a crime series, and dozens of short films, and he has a novel coming out at the end of the year. His works have been shown on Amazon Prime & Apple TV to name a few. His IMDB Page lists him with 26 Producing Credits, 27 Editing Credits, 25 Writing Credits, 19 Acting Credits and 17 Cinematography Credits.
David’s Podcast - Wilde World
Watch - Crime Lord
Randy’s Favorite Baseball Movies:
Get Local SEO and Digital Marketing information from 38 Digital Market
Listen and subscribe to our show on iTunes, Spotify, Amazon Music, Google Podcast, iHeart Radio, Pandora or TuneIn.
Follow 38 Digital Market on our Social Accounts:
Follow our guest today at:
fascinated with entrepreneurs and small business owners. Plus, I love baseball. Every show I sit down with a small business owner and we discussed there running the bases of entrepreneurship. We throw the ball around on strategy, management, execution and innovation. Plus, a little fun baseball talk. Hey, thanks for joining us today. Settelain, grab your cracker jacks and you know what they say. Play ball. Okay, hey, it's a great day for a ball game. This is Randy Rodi with running the bases with small businesses and welcome to the show. A very excited about today's guest because it's a little different than what we've had in the past. This guy is a true creative. He takes our small business genre into a new space for the podcast. So while he does run a traditional digital media agency, his passion lies with his company Wild One Films. And he's made five feature films, a crime series, dozens of short films. And he has a novel coming out at the end of the year. And his works have been shown on Amazon Prime, Apple TV, just a name of you. And his IMDB page lists him with 26 producing credits, 27 editing credits, 25 writing, 19 acting, 17 cinematography credits. His dreams of opening his own studios someday. This guy is busy. So please welcome to the show all the way from Scotland, David Wild from Wild One Films. All right, David. Hi, Randy. very much for having me on your show and for me can be so sweet. So that sounds very Okay, this stuff out there. I can hardly actually talk about some of the projects you have been involved in. However, I do want to talk about let's go back maybe to some early years. you do all of this stuff with films and I mean, you're a really a creative guy and you do acting. I've seen some of your stuff. Actually, you're not too bad. Not too bad, right? Yeah. Thanks a lot. Did you grow up in an art loving family? I mean, is this in the genes? Is this in the Thanks a lot. the total opposite, absolutely not. In Scotland, you have when I was a child, my father, the only sort of influence we movies and stuff, my father used to take me to the cinema to see movies like in the 70s, like Star Wars and Superman. And at that time, it was all the disaster movies, you know, the airport 1976 in the town in Fernlow and the earthquake. I the world was coming to an end. So my father probably took me to a lot of movies, but I never actually thought it was such a distant world that I thought, well, I want to do that one day. That just wasn't in my head. But there must have been some seed planted there. And as he has went on, you know, and technology gets good and potentially doable in movies than that became more. I never started to often films at all. It was acting and I went to the local community center. And because I had to was going to be girls there. It wasn't you do reactant, you know, and I thought, maybe I can meet some girls. And I went there was no good looking women. So That is so funny. There are instances in my life where I have been motivated by the same factor. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think that's an honest motivation rather than saying I want to be an extra little. And I think you come to it from the basic bottom. And then you go, and then you can add fun with the process of something. And while I make any of this, you know, you don't you don't have any aspirations to make it be a big star. It's just like you can fall into the process and start from the basics, which I think there's a good way. You yeah, yeah. So when you started in the how old were you when you started doing the acting. So you must have been a little older because about girls. So yeah, well, yeah, just on 1920. I hadn't really got any act in the job only. I to a summer course. And actually I remember that Jeremy Butler was there, you know, okay, he was not summer. And that I drifted I went to London and I got on I dreamer school but I couldn't afford to getting so I can're drifting and part of London. I really wasn't until my my 30s my early thirties that really get more serious about it. you know, very so yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, what how did your family respond when you said, hey, I'm going to get into acting. And my went to by the, but when you're in Scotland and Glasgow, and it's not a sort of thing that you want to broadcast from the rooftops, you know, back in Yeah, because there's so many action movies in this like macho and but if you want to say you want to get an act in the early days, it's the sort of thing you kept to yourself to, I mean, because I've seen this kind of men dressed in tights and the feet are in shut with like, you know, and you know, it's cooler today, you days today. know, but back then it wasn't, you know, I know, nobody understood your accent in the UK. If you came from Scotland, you were totally, you know, and if you want the Queen's English, you know, then, well, you know, unless you were Sean Conny, Sean Conny, you know, right, right. Sean he's got a great, yeah, he's, he did well for Scotland, right, to get and Wales. Well, he's, yeah, because he's got, as he's Scotland or Wales, where's he from? To say people is a man. What? Well, he's, yeah, because say people is a man. What? People used to say Sean Conny, they thought he was Polish, they thought he was Russian, they thought he was Wales, they thought he's Scottish, comes from a different brother. You know, does that. You know, I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, yeah, so, yeah, so, you know, so that's how I really started was just as a slow process, you know, kind of fallen into it, you know, all right. yeah, incredible. That's so funny. You talk about the Scottish accent. So before we hit the record button, David and I have a mutual friend named Craig Campbell and I was telling David that, yeah, it took me about six months to understand Craig's Scottish accent, because it's quite heavy. That's That's that's one of the reasons I agreed to come on. That's because I thought, Brian, he's already had those cragues for the last, you know, so it may understand Mike's. And, you been on the show. So folks, you can go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. A year or two and find Craig show. Yeah. So we kind of move forward through your acting career and you kind of put out your first film, I guess, and had some early success around year 2000 or so called. Yeah. Pasty. I mean, I Yeah, it right. I started to get a series of acts in a bit three years before that. But I get so frustrated because I've got your film set on a shoot. And, you know, if you've got a few lanes to say, doesn't matter, you've always got to sit there for about 12 hours or 14 hours before you get to see your rods, you know, and a lot of the times I used to get cast as killers and maniacs. And I'm, I'm, I'm coming around to say, and I'm getting ready to kill somebody and I'm on wound up and I want to go and I want to race and I want to act and you tell me, it's like 15 hours later, you're seeing's ready. And but that time, you're already burnt out, you know, and again, you're waiting for calls to get acting jobs because back in those days, there was no internet. So you went for an agent call you and you got for a commercial over where you know, the movie took to say we're Dustin Hoffman, you got for a commission, you're going to play a car at something and then, you know, it's no, it's not only what you're saying up front. You want to play the, the denietal roles, you don't want to play, do you know what I mean? So that's, that's an act of sort of life and I got kind of frustrated with that, you know, I don't want to wait for a phone call. So what I would do, I started to rate screenplays, you know, I would start to rate scripts and that took me quite a few years, wrote maybe 50 scripts and I threw them in the bin and then I started to send them away to the BBC and stuff to get feedback. Cut a long story short, around that period there was movies like Guy Richie movie, Lockstock, get me lockstock a smoking barrel so they were looking for sort of comedy movies and stuff and I tried, I started an approval trailer and I went to Las Vegas, I went to LA to get a small crew and I shot a trailer to present me a business plan to try and raise 350,000 which took me a bit a year and a half and I managed to raise the money to make a movie and that was how the first movie really started, you know, which was the wrong move really, you know, for various Hmm, interesting. So what I am curious about, so the business of filmmaking, right, so we'll get back into business. But, yeah, and just like any business, gotta have some some capital behind you, whether you, that doesn't matter what business you're in, it's gonna take some money, some capital behind you to get things kind of up and running. film, I would imagine, you know, you said you needed 350,000 to do your film, some of these films today are millions, right? The budget, yeah, yeah, looking with these things. But so do you need the money all of that way up front before you start or can like some of that kind of dribble in as your as a project progresses? How does that all show you? you, yeah, yeah, does don't need any money to start really, but what you do need is a supply, you still need it, you still have to treat it like a business, you still need that, a business plan, a treatment. I needed a business plan because I had to get some small investors around like 10,000 pounds, you know, there was no internet back there, there was looking at startups. So I might have to get friends and family and show them a plan and I took photographs, the cast and the crew and the vision for it. I might as well raise 10,000 pounds so I could go and make a trailer or to so that somebody could see, well, they ever made a film before and I went, no. So I had to make a promo trailer, so I went, made that. Then I took that promo trailer to the Cannes Film Festival. I took it to Los Angeles. I took it to the Soho and London where other film companies are. So it was a package. So it was a plan. It was a treatment. was a trailer. It was the poster. It was photographs in the cast. And then you use that to pitch the movie. And people like that because it shows that you've done some homework in it. You're having my team's, I would go and attack, and attack the driver. I'll say, oh, I've got an idea for a movie. Nobody gives a shit about an idea. You know, you've got to put some action on it. Yeah, you've got to put some investment in it. You know, I mean, then some time. Yeah. Right. So, and so then that sort of money, you take it to sales agents, what you call sales agents and sales agents get pre sales. So when they go to the Cannes films, first of all, they can do a pre sale to different territories around the world and bring out a budget, you know, especially in bigger movies and a bigger movie, say you say you want to make a $50 million movie, right? if you go to the festivals and you say, I've got George Clooney that really like, subscribe to be, you don't have any money, you know. So if you try and get pre sale to, you know, George Clooney is say, big in America, he's big in Germany, he's big in, so all these territories bringing the pre sales that adds up to $50 million and that's the budget to make the movie. And then that movie's delivered to all these distributors, you know, so you pre sale movies that way, become, and that's how you do it with bigger movies. It's the same way we smaller movies, a bigger movies, really. But the industry's changed so much over the years because you're really selling movies to like Amazon and Netflix. ago, it used to be theatrical, release your selling to all these different territories. But you're really looking for that big Netflix deal really an Amazon or Disney or Apple TV with the bigger movies. And you know, I've got my movies on those platforms, but they don't promote those movies because I was going to star them. if you guys start and board an Apple TV and Netflix is going to promote it big, you know, and you know, because it's the market money that costs you can make a movie for $25 million, but it's also $25 million to market the movie, you Well, that's what it sounds like just even what you were walking through the process. It sounds like all of the pre-work that you're doing before you even sit down and start filming the story itself. You're doing all of this marketing. Oh, marketing. Oh, yeah. I mean, movies have been over the last few years are very, very, very small films, right? Very small films. But the reason I've done them is because when I made my first movie, I really hustled that, you know, I didn't know what camera man did. I didn't know what the late people did. I know what I just hustled that I'd directly done a script. Then I discovered as the years went on, I'm going to learn every part of the process so that when I do get a budget one day, I know everybody's job and I can respect the jobs and I can delegate, but I want to know every job. So I think you have to know Christopher Nolan talks about that Christopher Nolan made corporate videos before he made those big movies and he knew everybody's job, he knew the light and then he had sound. did that himself at first. That's the mistake that I made Robert Rodriguez made a movie for$7,000. He's one of the biggest filmmakers in the world, same as Christopher Nolan, but they made their movies from the very start with no money. I my movie with a budget and I didn't really know how to make a movie. So I had to go back the way and let it make movies. So that's what I've been doing the last 12 years and I do have a script that's $30 million that I'm trying to get some names and bought. Nice. And that's, it's actually to be honest, it's very hard to get money for movies, right? But it's easier to get $30 million than it is to get million dollars. Oh, sure. I can see then. Yeah. Yeah. Because if you spend the million dollars, right, then you go, right, who's in it? You're not going to get a huge name in it, names in it for a million dollars, right? And they're not going to spend $25 million market net. If you've no big names in it. So for $25 million for a production budget, then you can get Jerry Butler, you can get a bunch of names and they're famous faces international. Then they're going to pick 25 moments market it. So it's too risky. If you have no, it's less risky to give you 25 or 50 or 100. Yeah. Yeah. No, you've got to have a big price tag because then they think you've got a big idea, right? And so that's you've that's why I go from nothing, I go from making my movies for nothing, trying to get movies out in the 25, 40 million range. Sure. You know, I go from the opposite. You know, well, now you've got the experience behind you, right? Now you know, yeah. That's out of the yeah. That's out of the picture. Let's walk, understand, from conception, you come up with an idea to take it to the platforms, understand every single step of the way. that it's the same, well, it's a small movie or a big movie, understand how it business works. So, but it's taking me all this time to learn that. So hopefully, you know, I'm 56 years old, but you know, Ridley Scott is still going to make his movies at 80 and Clip used with his style. God's not priorities. They're all going, you know, and so yeah, you know, maybe I'll get 20 years in May. So maybe I can catch He's made forie... you know, hey, there you go. So what do you think is the hardest part about making a movie? I mean, you've got all of this marketing work that you're doing in front. Haven't even talked anything about really the process of shooting the movie. What is the hardest part in your esteem at this point? The part again is the finance, but before you even put it up, I've approached the finance, the hardest part is coming up with a script. I'm not talking about the small movies I make. I'm talking about, I've got a script that I've developed over, it took me years to write. hardest part is coming up with a great, great, great script because you know yourself, you've got an Netflix around, there's so many movies out of the same and you go, I've seen that, I've seen that, I've seen that superhero movie, I've seen that, it's the same as everything else. The hardest part has come up with something unique, but it isn't too unique that the studios think it's too quirky, too small. You have to come up with a concept, I've come up with a concept, I'm not going to say what the movie is, but it's called the Vipers and it's seven guys and women on a mission movie. It's a different idea that hasn't been done before, let's get potential franchise aspects to it. So you have to come up with something, the genre is similar, right? not too different because if you've got, you know, but you have to come up with something fresh, a fresh angle and you have to write a script and really work on a script and then present that script because there's so many bad movies made and you go, how did those movies get made? You know, they just get made because people attach some staff to them. I mean, if you go to the Cannes Film Festival, right? Everybody thinks the Cannes Film Festival was this prestigious thing where you see people walking up the carpet and all their walls, right? It's seeing the Cannes Film Festival as a buy-on-sellers market where they've got all these really, really terrible movies itself that they make, right? And you see stars on them. see Robert De Niro when the big Robert De Niro was on the poster, but he's only here for a day. He's $3 million for the day, you know? And it's an terrible freaking movie. know, are the Russell Coz and it for two days or something. So these bad movies get made because they can attach to stars and if they get the budget, they can give the star, you know, and then they work out of the movie. If they can make the movie for 15 million, they've got a couple of stars for a few days and at the stick they've been front of the poster and the movie's shit, but the star doesn't care because it never really gets seen that much, but it'll probably make it as money back. So, you know, that's the way that the movie business works, you know? I mean, I can have made a whole bunch of movies that are like 3 million, 5 million dollars if I went to Cannes Film Festival made a lot of crap, right? But it's no really what I wanted to do. I rather be known that in the last years of my life, I've made a few couple of good big movies that were going, that was really good. And a little, and build more and so on, like business DIY as well beside that, you know, like Steven, Steven Soderbuggle make movies, he made Oceans 11, but he also makes movies and iPhones, you know? So it's trying to get a business heart where you're making work to fulfill your creativity, but you're also trying to make work and build a business to make money as well, so you can keep funding yourself, you know, right? So you've got this big project. So now I begin to wonder, you know, kind of relating it again back to just a normal small business. you out kind of pitching the idea, the product, so to speak? So you've got this idea for this great big movie, potential franchising, you know, so give it some legs, some real life. Are you, is that the approach selling the idea or are you exercising kind of connections maybe that you have in the industry now? Well, I think it's, as I've been as I've been coming up with these ideas, really scripts, right? I've spent my time over the years keeping making stuff because when you approach producers, if you've seen get an idea that gets scrapped, they can look online today, and if you have a medium, it's at all in years. They don't want to invest in people that I want to invest in doers. So even if it's, if you've been making small movies, they still see that you're doing and you're driven and you're on to Penurio. So you get more chances you're scrapping, getting ready, your biggest script. So my main thing as well is that for me that in a way trying to get big movie made is like wanting lottery, you know, it's not quite as it, the odds are not quite as big as that, but it's still like that. you don't sit in wait for the phone to come back after you've sent the scripts away. So for me, it's always a bit build and you don't create a business online as well. And if that doesn't happen, especially on internet today, you know, look at people on internet, look at YouTubers and building their audience, you know, I don't want to look back in 10 years time and say, oh, I wish I'd done films online and build my audience. I to do both, do you know what I mean? So that if I don't get those big movies and building my audience because when you build your audience, you get more creative control as well. You get more control your work, you get more creative freedom. I would absolutely, probably more fun. I would rather have a niche audience that you can is make stuff and make your work than have a movie once in a while. So, I mean, and hey, you can make a movie, a big movie for the industry. And if it bombs, you go to directors jail for 10 years, you know what I mean? Whereas if you've got an audience online and you make something, go, that was good, that wasn't good, whatever. Still stick with you if they believe in the person because people, I think online people buy any people, they invest in people, they invest a tiny bit of people. Rather than the project itself. And that's what I've learned over the internet for years, you know, you're so random, you know, people follow you online because they can buy any of the person that brands, it's not necessarily the project, or always, you know, you know. Yeah. So I think that goes for I think that's an interesting concept, especially build your audience and then you have more control. I think that is absolutely spot on I'll be honest, that's my ultimate goal because if I got a deal for a big movie, big movie aspect is just to raise my profile as well that can bring an audience direct to me. Right. You know, that is really the main goal. It's not to say, well, I've got a big movie made because I know that can last five minutes. You're only as good as the big movie he's made. But if you can build that, bring that audience towards you and you see him making definitely fresh stuff, even if it's smaller, the immoray, and that's the way the world is today. Look at some YouTubers says that Mr. Beast, Mr. Beast just tundered on a billion dollars on YouTube channel. He's got 100 million YouTube subscribers. He's just been making videos on a phone 10 years ago and he makes all these YouTube videos and he just tundered a billion dollars because it's worth between 10 and 20 billion dollars. Yeah, yeah, that's just making video content. He's doing exactly what he wants to do. Do you know what I mean? The difference with YouTubers is YouTubers can make content on a phone at the start, filmmakers have to cast people, get a little crew, get locations, takes more time and a bit more money. You know, but you have to get inventive with it. You know, so yeah, I mean, so like any other business really, you have to, and as today is like, you have to, you know, you have to have a vision for the future, but online, you know, you know. So I Yeah, yeah, that's to step back to that early project you did, pasty face, is that right? Well, the title is awful. it's like what is it like? It's like, yeah. Yeah. So what happened with that project? So you went out, you raised 350,000 dollars or pounds. You created, you ended with a project, right? Yes. Yeah. is it like? It's like, Yeah, you went to the cinema, went to television. It was, and made money. Yeah. Yeah. What happened after that? How, you know, the, the, the David Wild role? How come, you know, you're not doing the, I went, I I went, I went, I went, I went to Utah, there's the sales role, but down to you. You know, what happened with that movie was when you're making a movie, that time there was so many people involved with, there's so many producers involved with it, which he expected a lot of producers to be involved with a movie that caused 50 million, but it was a lot of producers involved with a lot of people with Amstit and America, and then I would have to have the confidence call about a scene that I wasn't, they wanted to change and this, real that. had no creative control over it and I was very green as well. So I was turning it into a movie that I never wrote, you know. I was shooting the movie and I was hating it. I released the movie, I get released and I hated it. But I still promoted it. I it in national television. I went into cinema, went into DVD. There was a lot of copies in the stores. I hated that. Wasn't a great movie. So I basically kind of destroyed myself and you've even got other offers. I get soul. I let it get to me so much. What I should have done was like, I've never made a movie before. no been in film school, but I'm actually making a movie. I pulled it in and made money. That's a success. if you say that in Hollywood, this Hollywood says Hollywood movies are terrible all the time. You know, they make money. If you make money on the movie, that's a success. a Martha movie shit as long as it makes money. You make a movie. The next one. I can I crucified myself too much over it over and I disappeared for eight years and never getting movies again. And it wasn't until the technology started to command cameras as we know the internet and all the technology. I can because I made Robert Rodriguez on a TV show and I was talking to him and he made his first movie for $7000 so he could completely control it. that's how we built a career. And the same as Christopher Nolan, it makes $200 million movies. He's first movie because $7000 so they could control it. I no control. So I just wanted to start again. You know, I wanted to write direct produce, edit, control everything, distribution. then if I come back to bigger movies one day, at least much more experienced, and much more, you know, I could be in a room full of executives and I could say, yeah, they need to themselves and vull for a It's a business that's making money, of course, but I could handle it much better. And of course, over the last 20 years, the music and everything, the evidence change technology wise, you know, is, you know, it's an evidence change. longer. So to make money on movies is difficult to make money on music is difficult. So you go on to Pinotty on many different ways, you know. there in today's world, thinking about positioning yourself, right? So in small businesses, whether you have a product that you're selling, you've created something, you're selling it, you're, or it's a service, you're also always trying to find your angle, right? What differentiates you from the next guy around the block? there in the creative industry, and what is it, is it possible, I guess, to kind of do that? Can you, can you create a disruption? Can you create something that's so different from some of the stuff that's been out there? I mean, the movie and the creative TV industry, I mean, it's, it's, I don't know how many, you know, gangster movies you can do, right? They all have the same kind of concept. Now, the technology and the way you deliver it, you know, with technology in today's world, you know, filming on your phone or delivering it through YouTube or other channels, that may always change a little bit, but you know, in this creative industry like this, can you really, what can you do all I think the first thing that you have to do is well, when I say the Wads, George Lucas, I've created Tarantino, or Woody Allen, David Lynch, or Spielbug, what do you think when I say it was Wads, those people have branded themselves, you know, you think I sent it to a movie, right? So if you go along for years and years and years and years and become a filmmaker, and there's many filmmakers that make TV serials and film an episode, big, big TV serials, but you'll never know the name as directors, you know, you'll never who they are, you know, the maker living, but I think if you want to build your own audience online, you need to start branding your name, you need to be entrepreneurial, people need to know that name, they need to know what they're going to get, and when it comes to making movies, you need to see things that you haven't seen before, but you need to see things in a different way, you need to give them value, like any other business, if you've got a business, when you've got a business, you've got a solution for a that's why somebody, whether you're a plumber, somebody needs a plumber, well, you can, in art, it's not really, you're not really solving a problem, but if people still need art in their life, they still need music, movies, you know, they still love that, you know, it's part of their everyday life when they go home, they stick on Netflix, so I think you've got to brand yourself so that you become a name, so that when you become entrepreneurial, even if you're making movies, and you say I'm going to make a movie in Las Vegas, do you know what, I'm going to have an event in Las Vegas, people can come to that event, my fans can come to the event, they can be in the movie, stuff like that, you make it fun for people, they can come to the, they can come to the premiere, if it's that crane movie, they can dress up with crane characters, you just have to be inventive of stuff as well. You know, like I've got a series plan in making, I probably start next year called Mad World and it's an anthology series, we're 30 minute movies, like movies and stuff, and it probably won't get an Amazon because it's to extreme, you know, it's not like the type of thing you would normally see, you know, you can break the rules with things, but that's the beauty of the internet today, you can do things differently, but most people are not trying to do things differently, they're trying to make small versions of what the big studios do, if you try to do it studios do you fail because they do it bigger and better, you know, so you have to find something small and different people haven't seen before, I go, I haven't seen that, that's crazy shit that, it's almost like underground, but actually if you create niche, niche can be big, I mean Apple is niche when it starts, it's true, I mean, you know, right, you know, it's amazing that you know, you I mean, you know, right, you know, it's amazing that you say this stuff though about like even in your next project the Madworlds because, you know, between Amazon and Netflix and HBO and Showtime, I mean all of those networks, I mean, they're all into this competition for content and they're putting billions of dollars into uncovering, developing, distributing original content and some of the stuff that's on these channels, I look at them like, wow, that is the most bizarre, I can't believe they put a, you know, 10 episode series around that, that is crazy. So when you're talking about your Madworlds, I don't know, I mean, unless it's way crazy, I think you probably got a shot to put it after I think what I try to do is, I make things for no money, right? But what I try to do is come up with concepts that, if I make them, that producers could spot them and go, that could be something bigger, move you're a bigger series, you know, it's like my cream series, it's no money, it's no names and it's very small, right? But the actual concept is somebody that writes as a criminal, but it is trying to get legit, we're creating novels, getting drawn back and it has creamed worlds. rates cream novels, And then as they become a big creamed world, the novels become a success and you can't get, I think they, the concept, and I've had a few people approaching me could be bigger. And the same as I've done a horror movie, I've done a horror movie, no crojoma, and I've said some people interested in that because of the concept was original. So if you can create original concepts, like the Mad World series have got and you make it yourselves, then you can take that to producers and make them say, we can buy it, can we buy the rights to that to make the bigger version. So, and that's what I tried to do over the last few years as well when I make small movies, at least I'll own them 100%. My first movie I didn't own it, you know, which I don't care a bit because I hated the movie anyway. You know what I mean? So I think when you try your own, you don't IP your intellectual property, which is, you know, the way that the world was going with NFTs as well, I don't know if you've had that, you know, it's still early days for NFTs, you know, you NFTs, you know, you know. I'm going to get into it. I'm going to ask you about your NFT stuff. So don't, don't, don't spill the beans yet on. No, no, no, no. Yeah, I think it's very interesting. My wife and I, we just finished watching, I can't remember what platform it was on, but stranger things. Are you familiar with that series? There's some weird shit in that series. That is like crazy stuff. And I'm, there's a part of me as the seasons kept rolling. I'm like, this is getting weirder and weirder as it goes. I can't even believe I'm watching this, but I'm not alone that it's been created that way. And then it's so hugely popular. That's why I think, yes, all of this horror and crime stuff is, I don't know, it's a massive genre right now. And so if you've got a, kind of a new way or a new angle to present it, to create it, I think you probably have got. Are you familiar with that series? Well, I think, yeah, the movie business changed over the years. The movie business in the 1990s and 1970s embraced independent films where that's where a great time in Tinoe come along with reservoir dogs, another smaller movies and Cookeew's Nest and the 70s and Easy Rider. But after the 90s, the blockbuster started to take over and then those superhero movies. And before you know it, it was a vet movies, it was theme parks, you know. Right. So there was an audience that won't get fed. They would only get those movies. But when streaming kicked in in Netflix and Amazon, that was an opportunity to make more interesting cereals and films. And that's why, because there's a whole market that has been catered for. So that's where the streaming companies cater for those market. And the big blockbusters are kept for people that want to go and see the big theme park movies, you know. So, you know, that is interesting stuff. All right, so I kind of led into, we're going to talk a little bit more about some of your current projects that you're doing. But David, before we get into that, do you like I don't share the Well, Scotland, well, it's that time I can try something. Here we go. It's time the seventh inning stretch. we have this saying here, David. We call the seventh inning stretch. And I get to ask you a little bit about baseball, and I know, and I know from my other friends from Scotland and the UK, you know, these, you guys don't know Jack about baseball. Well, and you just told me to some people, tune and just to listen to the baseball and go, that's that's be fucked up the show. All right. So, but my wonderful team though, the, the, does the prep on the shows, they come up with some very good questions that are very related to your niche and your background. So, so the, so the question today is going to evolve around baseball movies. right, baseball movies. I'll give it a shot. Yeah, there we go. So, you know, baseball is thought of as America's favorite pastime. And there's something like 100, well, this is according to IMDB, 100 and 73 movies about the game of baseball. And there's all kinds of movies out there. they go and they look at this thing in a lot of different ways. People rank, you know, what, what are the best baseball movies of all time, all of this kind of stuff. And, you know, there's Major League field of dreams, money ball. I watched that one actually not too long ago again. But there's two movies that seem to go back and forth. This isn't your question, but I'm just going to throw this out because people are always kind of curious. crazy. Two movies. Yeah. Two movies that always are like right at the top. They're either number one or number two. One of which is Old Durham came out in 1988. Right. So, yeah, Kevin Casner. You get Tim Robbins, Susan Serena and then, right, some good stuff. then the other one that's ranked right there. Also, it's respects the score that starts getting better. In loft. front or right behind Bull Durham is the natural with Robert Redfield. Closed, conbasing here. Yeah, that came out in 84. So here's your question, David. Are you ready for this? was the first baseball film? Do you have an idea on the year or, you know, you get you'll get double hits here if you can even get the title. Oh, Google. I All right. not too long kind of even see the cast. I doubt it. I really don't. The cast is going to do it. to do it. The only thing I can think of my head is going to a black and white movie. Is that big the who's on first or whatever. That whole stand by. No, it was. Certain. It's in black and white. It's probably been put off into color at some point. But in 1915, a movie called Right Off the bat. And that is recognized as being baseball's first. Who did you have a stop in it? And I had no star. And actually at that time when they were making move, they actually used real baseball players. And this and this starred player called John McGraw or Mugsy McGraw. he played himself in the movie and and actually was in about a dozen movies after that. All right. Playing baseball players. So there you go. Right. That's it. 1915. Right on the bat. 1915. Oh, there you go. And we're talking about it today, David. So see, I will be talking about these pasties for a long you have a stop in it? And I had no right. on the bat. 1915. Oh, there talking about one. These are can barrier. Got to get it. Let's get back into it. Label. So speaking of pasties, can I watch this somewhere? Can I pull it up on YouTube? Is where I? So many producers involved with it, right? And they owned the RageState and they owned everything to it. So I really can address on that. There isn't even on streaming. You know, you can buy it on DVD, online and Amazon and places like that. know, in May, this money back can be some money. But there's the even on streaming because I don't want to distribution company owns that. And I don't give a shit. I'm glad there's no streaming. That's the only good thing I like. You know, I love attitude about it. It's like, wasn't it so bad? I hated it. I don't really care if you watch it or not. I don't give a shit. Look, you can make a movie. Look, the movies that I've made lately are not great. Movies okay. They make there may be a few thousand dollars. But at least, and they're not great. But it's sort of like I made a movie in America, you know, called screen. And it was about a bunch of kids at Halloween. And the FBI find them dead and frontly and driving movie screen. whatever has killed them, whatever they've seen on the screen has killed them. So you go back 24 hours before the party to try and find out what they saw on the screen. So I try to, I quite like the concepts, you know, I don't mean some concepts so I go, if I like a movie I've made for a few thousand dollars, I did the best that I had with a few thousand dollars. then I don't give myself a hard time, you know, but in that movie, I had three hundred fifty thousand dollars and it's a stinking pile of shit, you know, there is no excuse, right? Yeah, but at the same time, how many Hollywood movies have you seen that 50 million dollars that is a steaming pile of shit? Oh my gosh, yes. know, there's a lot of bad movies. So, you know, it's gone, I let it go, I've learned from it, you know, I've moved on, you know, I read better scripts today, you know, and I'm more in control my stuff today, so I don't cry too much about it, but I'm glad that nobody can forget. See that? my gosh, yes. good. That's funny that you even say that my son went to go see this movie, the the rocks latest movie, and he came back from the theater and I'm like, how was it? I was thinking I wanted to go see it. like, oh, dad told it is the worst. I mean, yeah, all the same. And then we were talking yesterday, and he's like, we were listening to the news, and they were saying something about how much over the weekend that movie brought in and my son's like, I can't believe that. That thing is so bad. Why would anybody go see that? Don't think no, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the time, mean, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the time, you know, I've something to get a sequel and a prequel. It's just the same audience. Yeah. Because of that. All of that. All right. So, so you've produced a bunch of fun stuff, and gonna roll through, and I'm gonna see if our audience can kind of connect the dots here. So you've got pasty faces, which was about. I was from kind ofners crime of some sort, from kind A few actors went to America when he hollered with the tr... and making Hollywood and ended up dropping. I could see the one Yeah, yeah. So the gangsters stuff. Then you get the mission X. You got close. I should know. Code poll-blooded killers. You've got screen, as you mentioned, Paul Girl, which, you know, that says itself. And then you jumped into the TV series, Crime Lord. And I want to talk about that a little bit. So you've got this kind of theme. That seems a genre that you do like. It's kind of this gangster-ish crime, some heavy, dark world, dark side of humanity a little bit, maybe, right? Is that your main Don't think, yeah, I'm going to take a U-turn on that soon. But I don't think it's much gangsters. It's more to do with crime. And, you know, when we say they were crime today, we think we think a gangsters may think. When I say crime, I think you open the newspaper and you see, you know, you know, a husband has just kept his wife and took her head off and wore it as a hat or something. The world is insane. The world is apps. You cannot use papers each day. And it's absolutely insane, me crime. The government's commit crime every day, you know what I mean? So for me, the crime genre is a very universal genre. It's a very wide broad, you know, AC movies, but see your killers and stuff. I'm more than a crime, which I wanted to do in the future. And horror rather than gangster stuff is such. I want to move away, you know, from kind of gangster, more crime and more. More to be assuming conditioning, the how it all pull it off the heads really. To me, what to do with that? Psychic, because what world is pretty insane? It's always been insane since we were born. And yeah, I mean, you know, people go to the world and it's getting worse, but I think it's just because we see it more because we're all connected. You don't blame me. You see do you know, right? So our paths crossed around your crime lord. Crame, yeah, yeah. Did Crame, yeah, yeah. Did you got a partner? You were really good. sorry. Thanks for mentioning. Yeah, so I do have a, I can't, I'm in season two, the very last episode, I think of season two. And yeah, yeah, yeah, which we're yeah, yeah, which we're still doing a feature lens because the condenser. So yeah, you're playing a hitman. Yeah, you know, there's going to do a job. And it's funny when I got the footage through sometimes because, you know, when stuff comes through, you don't know what you're going to get because, you know, you're not any acting or whatever. But so weird, so many times that when I make my films, I cast actors, but also cast non actors. Right. And the reason being as well, that when actors, I look at them go to drama school, they're taught how to act, they're taught a certain style. But when people are not actors, they don't know a certain style. They don't really stick to the rules. So the break the rules, they just do the thing. And sometimes that's more interesting. Yeah. Actors sometimes act, you know, and when I saw you and a couple of guys coming through with that, I hope it can just be natural. Right. You know, honestly, when I saw your thing coming through with, bag, that's it. That's it. That's all he needs to do. That's all he needs to do. It looks like the guy, he sounds like the guy, quite clinical. And, you know, a hitman would be clinical. He wouldn't be emotional. Be like, he's not getting any vengeance on him because he's not after, he's just after, he's just going to do a job for money. It's very clinical. And that's all he needs. It's great. And well, that was it was fun. It was fun to be able to do. I to do. I did the round day. I gave you a plug in the movie so that all your audience are going watch it. Yes, there you go. Yes, yes. I think they can. I'm waiting for it to come out on either Apple or Amazon here in the States. I'm not sure if it's a hit here. It's it's on it's in the States on Amazon. And it's on it's an Apple TV and 87 territories. OK. So it's in the States, it's in the UK. It's across the world. So it's on Apple TV. Well, I know we've watched the first season of Crime Lord on Amazon, I think, is where we've seen it. Is season two out on Amazon now? See, two, season two, which is the one that you run, basically tons of feature lens. Oh, OK. Because I was a bit two or three episodes short, but my aggregate, my distributor says, look, David, I'll actually get more of an audience if it's a feature lens. And you can still call it a season. OK. So I say, OK, I'll just turn on any feature. And then it's, you know, it's, you know, it's over an hour and a half long. It's nearly two hours. So it's a good size feature. Oh, there. So season two is on Amazon now in the US and Apple TV. And it's also going to be a Hulu as well. And a bit 40 other platforms, you know. Oh, So Oh, nice. All right. Well, I'll do a watch party at my house and with all of my friends. Yeah. Again, it took me a minute. I a Yeah. Again, it took me a minute. I probably have to put the sub-tait with some, you know. Yes, yeah, Yes, yeah, because we'll be sitting around like my son. I can't So you went from that project. Now you're going to turn this, what I understand as well into a novel. This is the novel that's coming out here at some point this year or early next year. Is Craig? I a project coming up that completely unexpected and I'm going to collaborate with some of these. So that's took about my time, which I can talk about in a second. But the real reason for the novel is, it's like I said before, I think the concept I had about a cream right in criminal was a good concept. But when you don't have the budget to execute at the best way for the full vision that you have, when you create a novel, you don't have a budget limitation where a novel, if your movie was going to cost 30 million dollars, then your novel can be the 30 million dollar story. So you can write the way that you originally in Vigygeet that, and the novel is actually set in America for many reasons. The characters in America, rather than in the UK for many reasons. So it's loosely based on that, but the concept is the same. So that would tell the real story that I had in my mind originally. I love it, I love it. love it. Well, and I love that genre that's kind of my entertainment reading is kind of crime novels and detective novel kind of things. So yeah, it's okay. Well, let's get to the novel kind Well, let's get to the first novel. The first novel took off, then there's another novel go on, because it boils a criminal empire. So you can tell the real story in there. And look, movies are made because the novel is back to Hollywood. Hollywood makes most movies because the comics and novels and toys. So if the novel done well one day, then they pick up the for that. Yeah, yeah, no kidding. You look at Jack Reacher, the novels. Yeah, all of the movies are Yeah, all of the movies are made because the novels. So you're starting, you alluded to this new project. I'm guessing is this Lincoln Townley documentary. Is that what you're Yeah, I've got, I'm going to say, besides with my own series, but I'm connected with a sort of artist online a few earlier this year. And I actually asked him, I was doing a lot of podcasts. So I had an actor on, I had a filmmaker on, and I wanted an artist on the podcast. I invited him on the podcast. But he reached out to me and said that he wanted to do a film about his life over the last 10 years. Would it be interesting? Then I was completely, you know, of course, I'd been interested. I looked what he's, first I wasn't too sure, much about him, but I looked at his backstory and his story is incredible. And when a filmmaker gets access to his story, everything's about having a great script, a great story. What the man's done in the last 10 years is pretty amazing. He started off, he was a manager of a strip club in London and Soho, a famous strip club. And he caught up in drugs and women and became a cloak, addict, and he almost died. He met this actress, who's a famous actress in UK television, they got together, they got sober. And she's seen some of these art and she couldn't believe she thought it was like, France is bacon or like Picasso or something. And he didn't know that's mine. Yeah. So the put a long story short, he started to make his art, take the galleries, he'd get tundered by a hundred galleries. And then he put on his own show and it sold out. Cut a long story short, Michael Cain, discovered his art, Michael Cain, bought his art, championed him, he promoted him before, before long, he was getting commissions for Al Pacino, the capital, the needle, how he'd been starting, you know, Nick Nalti, he's done the art film, was every star in the world, you know. So he's exploded and he sells his artwork, he just sold some artwork there for three million pounds for six pieces. Wow. And he's made 20 million during the pandemic. So he's incredibly successful and he's a different artist because he's Michael Cain, he calls on the next Andy Warhol, because he's making his art, he's making money and he's bowed on a brand and he's, and he's disrupting the galleries, another big galleries come to him, but he sells it before he's worked, goes to the galleries, you know. So it's an incredible story, you know, and he's been shooting the footage, how many students, his team has been shooting footage when he started his garage 10 years ago, he started painting his garage and they've been shooting footage for 10 years. But they don't know how to pull it together as a story and as a movie and as a film, you know, they've just been shooting the footage. So he's came to me and it's a, I met him in London a couple of weeks ago, one he's, he wanted shows where to break first, and it's gone well. So it looks like I'm going to be doing that, which is an amazing, amazing opportunity, you know, because whether to make infection movies or documentary, I'm still telling a story about, and then I'm amazing character, you know, and a story so, yeah. Well, this he's Well, this guy sounds like an incredible, you had me already at the start, you know, he managed a strip club in London, I'm like, really, what's it's got, you know, but yeah, it's one amazing story. I've, yeah, really looking forward to that. So in a project like this, do you start, are you involved then in writing the screenplay, you know, get it to pull it together, or does he have something already kind of but yeah, it's Yeah, and a documentary, that that it So much to screenplay. I mean, I watched it and the views of Michael Mood and Alex Gibney. Alex Gibney is one of the biggest Oscar winning documentary filmmakers there. making, And there we're talking. You don't really do a screenplay because if you've got the story, you get the basics of the story. They've been shooting out the footage of his journey over for the last 10 years. the stories there, the great stories already there. The footage each step of the journey is there. So basically, it orchestrated altogether to turn it into a three-act sort of story. it's got a structure to it. So once you've got the footage, you put it in the timeline, you start finding the stories there. You just find the structure. You tell the story. You know, the start and the off probably if we are painting these garage and then you're seeing, you know, you give the audience a little teaser to what's coming 10 years ahead, which is one of the biggest artists in the world in the space of our 10 years. In fact, it was probably seven years, which is amazing. most artists, 95% artists don't make a living at all from art. This guy has made, you know, more than anybody can make in the lifetime in the last few years. So it's an incredible story. it's not just a story, but art. It's a story, but most bands, most musicians, most filmmakers, most act don't make a great living from the creativity. He's shown a way to make a living for your creativity, been taking control. He's created his own virtual galleries as well, but people actually don't need to go to the galleries and London. They can go to the virtual gallery online and they can see the paintings on the wall. So he's always collectors. always collectors by from all over the world. He's done work for the Kennedys, the Kennedy families, the commissions for them. So it's just an incredible story. Yeah. And it's a great opportunity for me. So that is, that, you know, it's an exciting story. So at the moment, I'm involved just bringing the structure of that together, you know, and he wants it out next year, because it's his and it is 10 year anniversary next year. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's not only a Yeah. And Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's not only a great story about success in the creative world and what he's doing, but it sounds as well and curious as this comes together that also it sounds like a great story of just of him overcoming his own personal demons coming. These elections and his alcohol. Yeah. The recovery of that, which is always the inspiring story. Lord, that and his is a story. Yeah. I never meant build and been one of the biggest artists in the world. Yeah. So yeah, that's probably my biggest opportunity from a very, I mean, so I couldn't ignore that. So it's like, so we're working working at the moment, you know, and of course, side by side, you know, that's why I've moved forward. My novel and I've moved forward the mad world a little bit until next year, but you know, when I've got a few days off each month, I can, so you know, we're still working at the moment, but it's gone well, you know, so well, I like and know, so well, I like and I'm going to relate this back to any kind of small business or any business. You're always looking for that next opportunity that you can bring to market. And I think in your particular world that is very much the case, you're always looking for that next creative opportunity, that next creative idea and and well, yeah, and concept that you could bring yeah, and concept that you could bring forward. I think you're talking in this podcast at the moment, right? The only reason I connected with this guy was this because I always started to do a little video podcast, to talk to actors and filmmakers and actually, if I hadn't started that podcast, I wouldn't connect with a guy because I actually asked them on the podcast. couldn't make the podcast, but then he came in with this opportunity for me. So that's how we connected. So the more you put yourself there, the more whatever you do, and if you're sharing what you do and you share with passion and your energy, people see that. So, you know, you're still around, this world has changed, this world has a bit bound. Oh, look, building business relationships is always a bit relationships, whether it's online or offline, both. So I think the more that we put yourself out there and podcast and videos and social media, even though we're all random, social media and how bad it can be, I think it's an amazing opportunity. You know, it connect with people, you know, and, you know, as we all know that, you know, know, yeah. All right. So I want to be sure I also give you an opportunity to talk a little bit about another personal project, the Mad World series. Yeah. What is that exactly? How it? Give us that. Well, I wanted to run down. you're making a series like a Dead Creme Lord, you get the same story, the same characters that you're doing, you can get caught up with that. You know, if you want to do something fresh, like an anthology, like, you know, the Twilight Zone was an anthology, you know, where there's 30 minute stories, there are different, there are different characters. So for me, Mad World is basically all sorts of stories, horror, crime, 30 minutes long, different characters. I look at the world that retain everybody in SENSUS, then I used to speak. most friends down for the idea for a story. That's a film there, that's a film there. And I thought, I can't make 90 feature films for the rest of my life, but I can maybe make 90, 30 minute episodes over the next few years and different stories. And I like the idea that people can't put you in the box because if they see a horror movie, they go, oh, he's a horror guy. And then I'll do something different. Oh, he's noise, this guy is that, you know, I like the idea, but you've still got to have a kind of continuity to the type of stories that you do. To me, what I was so insane, I just want to communicate that, no communicating that way, whether I hit you over the head or a message. And I sort of entertain me if you know what I mean. You know, and so yeah, I want to start that early next year. And I've already got the episodes written the first 10 episodes, 10 films really, you know, I've got the bread. So, but I just want to build that as my own line thing, you know, and again, if I get noticed one day, then it can go bigger as well. Just taking a different approach from the crime thing, purely for, you know, but yeah, you know, and that'll be a mixture of actors and non-actors and I'll be short in the UK, it can be short in the US, it can be short in France, different films, you know, so. That's it, you know, know, like another great opportunity. So people can go to madworldseries.com, go check that out for support information, understand. Yeah, there's a mew West, the other people want to think that more about it as a mew West, the say not from, you know. to All right, so David, here we come. We're down to the bottom of the ninth. All right. Okay. This is where I get to ask all of our guests, what advice do you have for rookies in the game, meaning those who are just starting out in business or those who already have their business and are looking for, you know, some guidance, some words of wisdom from guys like you that have been around and been, you know, scrapping away and putting them enterprise together and what kind of advice do you have for folks? know if I've got one of the words when being, you know, a mapl just trying to share stuff that I've learned and I think the most important thing, whatever you want to do make movies, sell products from our website, whatever, start a shop, I think. And I think you've got to be prepared to feel and and have a joy and feel, but I don't mean feel you with this catastrophic that you're going to mortgage your home to start a business, especially today, you can start a business today very small, inside your business for your phone, I it's important today, if you've got an idea for some idea for a business or you're wanting to turn your hobby into a business, then I think you should start it with the smallest budget it's possible. And not to see if it works, to see if, now sometimes you start things in life and go, that isn't really me, but you don't know that until you've tried it, I think you should do things kind of fast and cheap and give it six months and you go, then you find that that isn't for me, then then you can off the things that you find doesn't you, and that might take the path that is you, you know, I think you've got to be prepared to fall in love with the process of what you do and no think about a destination which everybody does, I'm going to make this amount of money one day, whatever, because if you don't fall in love with the process or something, I mean, as an interview with Steve Jobs talks about that, you could have an idea for the next big thing that could be the next big billion dollar thing, right? But you'll never get there if you don't love the process because even if you somebody says that I've got the recipe, make gold bars, right? If you don't have the energy and the love actually gone that journey of the process, you're going to burn it before you get there. So what have you do? Enjoy it. Look, you look at the kids that start from their bedroom, beginning computers, and then they don't think about a career, they don't think about making it, they just enjoy playing with computers or playing games, and then that becoming gamers and make money, like the guy told you for YouTube, it's make, you know, a kid's silly channel for a billion dollars, he didn't do it, he didn't do it to make money, he just did it because he loved making videos, you know? I think people have got to fall in love with it, what they do, try it, these things, be prepared to fail. Look at all my movies that I've made, that movie is a failure, but it wasn't a failure because it made me realize what not to do the next time, you know, and to find your own way. So I think people just think too much about the destination today and don't fall in love with the process and have fun with it up there, you know, and then, if you really have fun with what you do, right? You could sell, you could sell anything to anybody, because you'll start marketing it, you start branding it, you live and breathe it, and, you know, I think that's the main thing, I think forget about the destination, forget about making the big box, if you can make it a hump, put it this way, right? Most people, a lot of people hate the jobs, right? I think a lot of people that if they could find it, that it could do something that they love doing, but they get half the money, a quarter of the money, but they're really happy, but over the years, you'll end up making more money than you would in a job that you hate, that's a much more enjoyable life, you know, because when you go to a job, you don't like you end up doing all the vacies, you end up drinking too much, you go too many holidays, you get fat, you get, you watch too much Netflix, you know, you know, I mean, you look for all these other things that you don't have from yeah, I love that. I know it's so, falling in love with the process. I think that is. I think it is. I don't think anyway, I'm fucking it is. I don't think I mean, we all know it, but it's the same thing that a lot of people see, but at the same time, people stole. I see them online. Here, make quick money. Make a quick buck and this. Make a quick buck and that. Here's a short, there is no short cuts. Right. You know, so if you're going to pick the long road, pick it, take the long road. It's something that's fun. It's like me making these small movies. I like the time of bloody hard. get stressed out here, but I still love the process of doing it. I mean, and I learned something each time and each time I learn how I know I can do it. This is 11 person, you know, and I know that maybe in an hour, five years time, I can do a living that I can never dreamer. You know, so I think that's the key. Just find and be prepared to enjoy failing but don't again, don't mortgage your home. You know, I think it's something. Right. Right. I speak with the business fan iPhone, you know, yeah, I think it's great advice. I think love your passion behind it. I think really it is a true entrepreneurial kind of a spirit or an anthem there, which is people, you know, start businesses. They pursue and try to grow a business because they love it. Yeah, it is what I love to do that. And that's it. Yeah. And if you may, if you don't love it, you're probably aren't really going to succeed at it. I mean, you do have to love the process, I think. Oh, if don't love it, maybe a lot of money, maybe really miserable and spend that money on doing shit that's not making you happen buying all this. I mean, many, many rich people that measure, you know, I mean, I spoke to Craig Campbell, you know, Craig Campbell, SEO people on your mate, and Craig was talking about when he started his SEO, and he was basically saying, I didn't know I was doing, but I loved, I loved the process. I love what I was doing, finding my way and asking and also on that. then I go on it out and, you know, and then he's really good at weight. It doesn't have. So, I mean, it's that simple really, but people always wear it in a short cut. Don't they? You right. Well, man, I appreciate you being on the show. So fun to talk with you and have you on. I'd love to get you on again at a point when you have a couple of these other projects out, you know, the Lincoln Townley project. I'd love to see that thing come around as well as the, the mad world. So, and I'll be looking for that crime Lord novel because that is right up my. Yeah, no, I I definitely did not, you know, and I think said, right, I really appreciate it. And it's been great talking to you. Yeah. Yeah. And if you Yeah. Yeah. And if you ever need a bald headed American, you know, character actor and something, you know, you know where to look me up here. I can see in my world. So, yeah, if I do it, if I do, we're about to use the states. Yes, we're, we're about to the states are you? Oh, I'm right in the Midwest right no, right? Okay. So if I'm close to Ohio, yeah. Yeah, yeah. There go. All right. Well, it's a day, but thank you so much. that's the ballgame folks. Thanks for joining us today. And if you liked our show, please tell your friends, subscribe and review. And we'll see you around the ballpark. Running the bases with small businesses is brought to you by 38 digital market, a digital marketing agency committed to client growth with lead generation, higher conversion. And increased sales. Connect with us today at 38 digital market dot com.