Henry Grendell - KDG Attorneys at Law

Running the Bases today with Henry Grendell a founding partner at Kaufman, Drozdowski & Grendell LLC - Ohio-based business law and litigation practice.  KDG has been in business for over four years, with member partners averaging over 20 years of practice.

Henry shares his thoughts on providing clients legal counsel, how small businesses can stay out of trouble, and - the golden rule of business.

He loves to travel and we touch a bit on some of the extravagant locations he’s toured.  You’ll need to check your maps for some of these places.

After 26 years of practicing law in both a corporate structure and with his own private firm, Henry has plenty of stories to tell with lessons that we can all benefit from.   Give him a call for a quick chat or a cup of coffee - he's always open to help to guide a path or solution.

We also discuss “The Baseball Rule” and how it applies to legal precedence today.

Learn more about Henry and KDG Attorneys at Law  at https://www.kdglegal.com/

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Transcript

0:01

I'm Randy Rohde and I'm fascinated with entrepreneurs and small business owners. Plus I love baseball. Every show I sit down with a small business owner and we discussed they're running the basis of entrepreneurship. We throw the ball around on strategy management, execution and innovation, plus a little fun baseball tag. Hey, thanks for joining us today. Settle in, grab your Cracker jacks and you know what they say?

Randy: 0:34

All right. It's a great day for a ball game. You know, say that just because I love baseball and I always think every day is a good day for a game. So, , anyway, there we go. I'm Randy Rohde and you are listening,, running the bases with small businesses , today we're pretty excited. Another first on the show. but let me roll through it here. We've got, he's a world traveler. He runs. I just found that out actually just more recently., listen to this though. This is pretty, , amazing. He has been recognized in us news and world report as a best lawyer for commercial litigation, not just one year, but for the last three years running. That is pretty impressive, I guess, unless you just bought that title. I don't know it. And he's also the founder and partner of K D G law firm right here in Chagrin Falls., and that is Kaufman, Drozdowski . Did I get that right? You got it. Okay. And Grendell and I'm happy to have, , the latter with us, Henry Grendell, Henry, welcome to the show.

Henry: 1:43

Well, thank you. Appreciate it.

Randy: 1:44

There we go. I'm telling you that was a mouthful. All of that stuff. Right. All right. And I said, you are a first on the show. You're the first attorney we've had on the show. I am honored. Honored. And that has been intentional not to have too many on here. Yeah.

Henry: 2:00

I'm not surprised, but hopefully it'll be a little bit different than yours. Yeah.

Randy: 2:06

Do you like lawyer jokes?

Henry: 2:07

Uh, you know what? I get tired of them. You know what? I'm okay with lawyer jokes, you know, but good lawyer jokes, you know, a good lawyer joke is one where it actually. It's something specific about lawyering, not just, you know, the one joke I think about is the, uh, uh, you know, the only lawyer joke I know is the, uh, um, what is, what is a hundred lawyers at the bottom of a Lake? A good start. Yeah. You could do that about anybody else. So that's not a good lawyer joke, but it's the only one I can remember.

Randy: 2:35

So that's good. All right. I don't have anything prepared from a lawyer joke cause I didn't take your joke. No, but that's a good one. I'll roll with that one. I'll remember that one then. Right. So listen. So you've been practicing law for like 26 years as I read through your bio., Give us some background on him. What is that like 26 years. How did you start? How did it like roll through?

Henry: 2:58

Yeah. You know, it's funny because it was 26 years. Well, it is 26 years in November., and you know, it, it happened in a flash really. I mean, I can't believe it's 26 years, but you know, you graduate in 1990 before, uh, the market was kind of tough. So I got my first job working for a judge. So I worked, I was, as it was, they call it law clerk. Now they call them staff attorneys. But, um, that was out in Lake County., this was a tough judge. He was, , sort of a hanging judge of Lake County, but he was, to me, it was the best way to start my career. He was, um, You know, he was very, he was a great instructor. He, uh, was very patient. He let me listen to anything I want. I could sit in on hearings and, , really, was it just a, a great way to start a career? Uh, from there I went to a downtown, so I worked for a couple of law firms downtown. That was about 10 years worth there.

Randy: 3:45

How long are you with the judge?

Henry: 3:46

Uh, two years. Two years. Yeah. Those are two year clerkships. So it's, it's pretty much two years. And then you move on, , any much, you know, much longer than that. It, you know, it's time to actually do it versus

Randy: 3:55

kind of like the minor league player. There is like, listen, if you can't demonstrate in two years, you know, it's, you may want to think about, so find another job, right.

Henry: 4:05

So, uh, from there I went downtown and I ended up working with a couple of big firms downtown. Uh, the second one was about seven years. Um, I got to know one client really well and insurance company., we got some good results for them they ended up, Getting to the stage in their career where they were ready to hire the first lawyer. So I was, he, I was that, uh, I became the first lawyer of the company. So I started that in 2005. And then, um, 2012, we sold the company, uh, to a big. Conglomerate out of Texas. Uh, they gave me an offer to go to Texas, which I turned down because I have family here and my kids were in high school and it just didn't make sense at the time where at, in Texas, uh, McKinney. So it's a suburb of Dallas. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I like, I like Texas, Texas is great, I think, but yeah. Yeah. You know, I've been there a few times. I haven't spent enough time in texts to really get a good handle on it. Yeah. There you go.

Randy: 4:56

But I like, I agree, you know, chagrin falls is a great place for the kids. Oh yeah.

Henry: 5:00

Yeah. We, we have. You know, we've just loved being here. Yeah., but so, um, after that, , I ended up, uh, coming back and ultimately started our practice. It's Kuaffman, Drozdowski and Grendell. We're all kind of experienced lawyers who worked in big firms downtown, but also worked, uh, for companies. We have several. Guys who, uh, several lawyers who were general counsel, that was my position at family heritage, my insurance company., it was general counsel. So I was chief lawyer for the company, but, , several of our, uh, other attorneys, uh, have that background. So we kind of. Pose herself as, as lawyers who,, know business from the inside, but, you know, have practiced at the highest levels downtown.

Randy: 5:37

So, all right. Yeah. That's quite a journey and day to day, as I like to say your candidate, the grizzled veteran on the bus here. So you've got some.

Henry: 5:48

Mileage the mileage, you know,

Randy: 5:51

it's good. It's right. It's experience. It's, you're the guy who I would want at the table, right? Yeah.

Henry: 5:57

But it's, it's, you know, I do have a little broader experience than some, you know, some lawyers do the same thing for the whole career and move on. I've been, you know, it's always been business law, but whether working inside a company or working outside for companies,, you know, I've had, and then even work for a judge and, Yeah, I've got been around the block a few times and you know, different, uh, different blocks. Yeah. Oh, that's okay.

Randy: 6:18

That's okay. Right, right. So here you are KDG law. Um, and it does roll. That's nice, right? Yeah., four years strong. So I know, you know, I did a little background. I mean the insurance company, you guys sold that thing, I'm sure you walked away nicely equipped. We'll say, you know, longer than 10 years, it would have been better equipped. Well, about seven years we sold of that, so yeah. Yep. Going into private practice. I mean, that's, that was a whole new venture. Why did you decide to go that route instead of like continuing with a general counsel role in a corporation?

Henry: 7:02

Yeah. You know, the, uh, first of all, the general counsel jobs are tough to get. There's very few of them out there and, um, you really have to kind of fit a niche and, um, every company has their own. I'm always amazed at the different things companies do, you know? multi-million dollar companies that are junk yards, you know, multi-million dollar companies that do very narrow things and they looked to find lawyers. And a lot of times those jobs are filled by people who've done outside work for them, like how I got my job. Sure., but you know, the other thing is that when I was leaving my firm to start with the company, , you know, I was at the stage where I was, I was just about ready to become a partner The difference between an associate and a partner in a big law firm is associates do a lot of the, the actual work, you know, the actual grunt. Laboring or on, on, you know, in a bigger firm, a bigger case, uh, when you become a partner, it oftentimes becomes more about, finding clients and finding work and, um, ultimately doing those, the big moments in cases. But, , and I was kind of yeah, on that stage. So I got this great offer right before I hit that stage. So I kind of had the desire to, to, to go and do it myself and try to try to build a business. And, uh, that that's where I, where I left. Uh, that's where I'm at now. So, you know, it's been four years, , uh, four years at KT G , you know, I'm out building a business. I'm like any other entrepreneur and I probably spend more time, um, doing podcasts or, , going to, you know, chamber of commerce events and talking to people, uh, as I do law, but yeah. I've done a lot of law, my time, you know, 26 years. I know how to do that, you know, but it's really building a business. Yeah. It's fun.

Randy: 8:31

that's interesting that you kind of present it that way because, I have a daughter she's 13 and, uh, she thinks that she wants to be an attorney as much as I try to dissuade her. Um, yes. But she was very excited that you're going to be on the show. Cause she's I tell my kids, Hey, I've got, you know, blah, blah, blah, coming on. And this is what they do. And she's like, Oh, you know, and if she wasn't in school, I actually, I think she would have enjoyed just kind of being here. so, but she said, I've got a question. You gotta ask him this question. All right. it was, how do you become a lawyer? And before you answer it, I told her, I said, well, you have to go to school. You've got to get an, earn the credentials. and then beyond that, it's just like starting any other small business. Now. That's what I tell her. I don't know. What do you think is right wrong?

Henry: 9:26

Yeah. You know, the, uh, w to, to start a small business as a lawyer, I mean, that is what they call hanging out a shingle or hanging a shingle. I have a good buddy who did that you know, he's got a great practice now, when he, you know, he does. You know, great work. Um, but it's not hard. It's not easy. The advantage of me, I started with a judge, so my judge showed me the lay of the land and he'd made sure I understood. And he gave me insight. You know, I've been doing this for 26 years. Right. At that time he had been doing it for 35 years, retired at 70, you know, he told me. You know, a lot of things that, you know, otherwise you learn the hard way. And, uh, I working for my firms, you know, the, um, I I'm always amazed, you know, both firms I worked at were very good. The second one was like I say, one of the biggest firms in town and there was nothing I didn't do that. I didn't talk through with a partner that they didn't review what I had wrote. Um, and that, you know, it was a second set of really experienced eyes from rural. I mean, they were really good lawyers. and you know, it, wasn't always the easiest thing., getting your document that you labored over for hours, maybe on the weekends and have it chopped up, you know, and say you didn't get this writer.

Randy: 10:34

No kidding. I was just getting like rolling through that in my mind, because as I've shared with folks in the past, I'm like, I want to know what I did wrong. I don't like being told what I did wrong. And so I there's a lot of like humility that you're throwing out there just as you're saying that like, Oh my gosh, everything you write drive me crazy, everything.

Henry: 10:55

And you know, you develop a thick skin very quickly. But the other thing is too, is that I've got to the point now that everything I do, you know, I always, I always give it to the client. I let them review. We talk about it. They can ask whatever questions they want it's if they want to handle it a different way at the end of the day, it's their case. Um, you know, I've got the, my experience and my knowledge and my, you know, the, the ability to, to draw on, on, having done it enough times. Right. But at the end of the day, , it's their issue and you've really got onto that. But to go back to your daughter's question, I think the, it helps to have, um, to, to start your career, um, with other lawyers who are experienced because there's a lot of them. Kind of craft to it, , and a lot again, uh, mistakes that you make and a lot of judgment, um, and that you really learned by, , by doing it for, for a while and having made the mistakes herself.

Randy: 11:40

And I would imagine I could be completely wrong about this, but the number of years that you had. And had been practicing prior to starting Katie G uh, founding, what do you say start found, um, that, well, you know, your lawyers, you guys are, he has a specific art. I would imagine though, you, you probably came to the table with a lot of people who like. They know Henry, they trust, they know this guy does great work. And so it probably, I'm guessing wasn't all that difficult for you to kind of start like, Hey, we're open and you probably have like 10 clients immediately or whatever the number was.

Henry: 12:24

But yeah, it, it does help to have, um, you know, it's a network, you know, who look at you as being, you know, they always talk, the term is a trusted advisor, you know, and, and that's what. Your goal is, and whether it is a situation where you get a big case or a big matter out of someone, or they're calling you up and you don't charge them because it's really just talking through an issue with the, you know, you'd like to, to ultimately, you know, call your clients, friends, right. it, it helps to have, people, you know, and that's where, you know, again, getting involved in organizations and, and, you know, working with people when it's a lot of it's referrals, you know, people, um, had a good experience with you. You help them out of a difficult situation and they, you know, ideally refer you to others.

Randy: 13:05

So I hear you already, you're kind of, you you've had the opportunity to do what you wanted to do. Go start your own practice, be the one, right? Uh, the one who gets to scrutinize the other people's work. Yeah. So what's been the hardest part though, of launching the firm.

Henry: 13:23

You know, I'd say there's a couple things, you know, first of all, when you're at a big firm, you've got a staff and there's there's people who are there to do, everything that, that involves a business. So, you know, you have accountants and you've got, , office administrators and assistants and HR people, and people to take your documents to court for you. And, you know, you name it. They, they make sure that, you know, they want you billing and anything else that's outside of billing. They really don't want you to doing, they have other people too. To do that for you., when you have a small business, you know, you've got to fill in all those gaps, you know, so I just did the contract for our, our, you know, a Westlaw, um, you know, which is our legal research, uh, function. So, you know, I had a deal with them and, and, you know, sometimes it gets a little, , you know, you're like, Oh, I'd rather get into this matter. I've got, but you know, someone's got to do the Westlaw contract. You know, we have one, we really have just one, uh, office manager. For, five members of the firm, uh, we've got, uh, two of councils. So those are senior lawyers who, um, you know, don't work quite as much, but, uh, , they tend to need help with the computers and stuff, but right. And then now we have two part-time. So there's really nine lawyers there who we really have one employee who's doing it so that, you know, a lot of the, the kind of the administrative stuff falls on the lawyers to do. And it's okay. You know, you just do it, but that's the hard part is doing that. Uh, the other thing is, is really, is, is again, you've got to go out and get clients. You've got to, you know, there's the skill sets they teach you in law school, which is, you know, reading and writing and kind of thinking and critiquing and, , They don't teach you how to go out and get clients.

Randy: 14:54

I was just going to ask you, is that a class you take in law school? I want to be sure. My daughter understands is like, no, you've, you know, this connection is really important. Yeah. The ability to network it is.

Henry: 15:06

And, um, that means, you know, you get involved in organizations, you talk to people, you make presentations,, you know, you really are out there. Um, you know, trying to. A people know what you do, but you know, be a way a thought leader and have people really, , just get, um, to, to know what, what, you know, and then in the right moment, you know, ideally they give you a phone call and you're off and running. Yeah.

Randy: 15:27

But I would say. That's not too dissimilar to many small businesses and especially of service businesses where referrals are critical. You're out there. You're networking. You're trying to get known. And I think, you know, being an attorney same way as me being a digital marketer it's as people get to know like, and trust. They will do business with you. And, , we take a similar position that we try to be that trusted advisor with our clients and win. And that's the relationship that we try to build, but I think that's the way with any small business. They're like, Hey yeah., get out network, get to know people., that's a way to sustain business in today's world.

Henry: 16:11

Yeah, I agree.

Randy: 16:12

Yeah. All right. Good. You all good words. I'll share that all with my daughter and we'll see what she says.

Henry: 16:17

yeah, if she needs to talk, I wouldn't charge her that much either. I won't put her on a retainer.

, Randy: 16:24

all right. So Henry, here's the time so Henry, this is the moment of the show where we, um, Take a little detour, talk a little bit about baseball. Um, and uh, our research team has done a great job. Historically, what we always try to do is find a question or a topic in baseball that's related to your industry. All right. So, um, they've done another great job and, uh, talking about law. And, and MLB. Okay. Now we've, um, we really have gone and looked at something really quite old. and have you ever heard of this thing called the baseball rule?

Henry: 17:16

There's a lot of rules in baseball. There are a lot of unwritten rules, but which one?

Randy: 17:21

But this is the very specific baseball rule. Quote, unquote, I don't think Paul rule as it applies to law. Okay. Oh, uh, Ma'am, I'm not sure, but go ahead now. He's like, Oh, LA. Oh yeah. That's what I, right. I should know the answer to this. Not trying to throw you a curve ball here, son. All right. So the baseball rule. So this is where the courts have actually found in favor of baseball teams in regards to liabilities. On, when a fan in the stands is hit by a baseball or a bat it's whacked by a ball. Yes. Right., there have been numerous attempts at trying to Sue teams because, you know, a fan was struck by a ball and, all different kinds of things. So actually there is a baseball rule as what has been, known to be called at this point., any idea when that came, when the first court's decision on this? So that's the question for you? The first court decision on the base, essentially on that issue? Wow on that. In fact, it's the fan's liability because you purchased a ticket and you had the freedom to choose where you set. So you could have either have decided to seat in or set in a protected area or somewhere else where you, where the risk was certainly reduced. Yeah. So the courts pushed it back onto the, onto the fan. Yeah. When was the first decision

Henry: 19:06

or I'd do you mean the trial court or the Supreme? Yeah. Yeah. Um, I'm going to go with ready., 1932.

, Randy: 19:14

not too bad. I thought you were getting kidded actually, as soon as you started coming out that second soul. Yeah. Uh, 1913. Oh, okay. Yeah.

Henry: 19:23

I think baseball got in the 1890s or something. Yeah.

Randy: 19:27

So obviously, I mean, this is, , especially in the last, , five years or so, , MLB has really tried to deal with this., this is not your hard question, but any idea of when the first protective netting was put in place, , at a, uh, at a stadium,

Henry: 19:43

well, that's C I'm thinking logically here. So in 1913, they said that the people are, yeah. So, uh, I would say, um, protective netting was probably driven by the fact that they didn't want to get sued. So it'd be four. It'd be before 1913. How about 1905?

Randy: 20:01

Good, good lawyer. Good lawyer thinking they're actually even older than that. 1879. Wow. The Providence graves. Wow. Yeah.

Henry: 20:11

They were all worried about getting sued.

Randy: 20:13

Yeah. They put this thing behind the home plate and they called it the, at that time they called it the slaughter pit. So you can, you can only, I imagine. So just another little factoid here about 1700 fans are injured every year by foul balls. In majorly games just by foul balls. So that's a,

Henry: 20:36

well, you notice that they are, they're all extending how far the nets go out. Yes. Yes they are. So any topic,

Randy: 20:43

so I'll give you this, you can, that's a great story. Uh, yeah. So thanks for playing now. Let's get back into it. All right. Play ball. Uh, all right. So earlier at the top of the show, we mentioned a world traveler. So you've been around love Europe and stuff. You on your bio, you mentioned, I don't even know if I can even pronounce it. I don't know that I've ever heard of this. Brought his Slava

Henry: 21:09

Bratislava. Yeah, it doesn't sound like exotic and maybe. Yeah,

Randy: 21:14

it sounds well. I'm thinking it's gotta be like in Kong, Gary.

Henry: 21:18

Yeah, it's right next to it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Wow. I've never even heard of that. Is it? Still an independent country. Well, Slovakia is the country. It's the Capitol and, uh, that's the capital. So I'm like, there's some country that I've not heard of here. Czechoslovakia. So when they broke up, that's the Slovakia. Got it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, we did, uh, uh, Danube river. Oh, did one of those tours. It was so much fun. We. It was my wife and I as our, our, , 25th wedding anniversary. We both turned 50 that year. And my son graduated from high school and my daughter was getting ready to go off to a, , a study abroad in Europe. So there was a bunch of things going on. So we set up this trip and, you know, you start in, uh, in Budapest and end up in Prague. And, took the Danube up the river and one side trip we were in Vienna. We took a little side trip over to Bratislava. Cause it just sounded kind of cool.

Randy: 22:12

Yeah. Just to say like you're probably the only person I've ever met. That's from that visited the Bratislava. Yeah. It's worth going. That's a, that's funny. All right. Well that's good. Any favorite place that you've traveled besides you brought us slavery sides? Yeah. Yeah.

, Henry: 22:27

another trip we took, my parents took us on a, um, Mediterranean cruise out to the Eastern Mediterranean. So we were in Turkey and we were in Greece, Croatia and Montenegro really kind of unique places. But you know that the, the city that kind of S you know, that kind of, uh, you know, really, really impressed me is this Budapest is how we started this river cruise. my kids were at the age, you know, they were 19 and 20.

Randy: 22:52

You take the kids with, Oh yeah. Oh yeah, no, this was, yeah. I'm not sure I would take my kids, but

Henry: 22:57

you know, Oh, it was, again, my kids were in college and they were getting ready to move on. It almost felt like a moment in life where they were getting ready to kind of leave the nest and it just. Right. It worked out, but, , you know, Budapest is just a really cool city. It's Daniel goes to the middle and it's on two banks of, uh, of the river and one side's Buddha. The other is patched and, uh, you know, it's just old. They call it the Paris of the East and it's really, , I have these great memories. We, you know, we went to the big thing. There were these baths. So we went to these. Bass. And it's an old kind of castle where they build up a set of bass into it. So there's a huge, , football size bath out in the middle of the courtyard of the castle, but then inside there's steams and hot baths and this and that, you know, so we did that. And then another day we had, we had gone, had a great dinner and there was, you know, boats that were., tied up on the Daniel. Yeah. And they turn them into like bars and restaurants. So we went up to this one late in the evening and you know, you're looking at the other side of the Danube there's boats going back and forth. Cause it's really big river. Right. And you're looking up, there's a castle above you and the lights are kind of twinkling and you just have these memories and, you know, we're just laughing and having a good time. And. it's, uh, it sounds wonderful. Yeah. It's worth. Yeah. Yeah.

Randy: 24:10

I'd love to do that. I love I've seen like the commercials, I don't know, like on public TV or something, you know, where they, they always have the commercial of the river tours and like what my wife and I like. Wow, that looks great. Um, yeah, I think that we would love that and just, I do have to Nick Rory. Of course, we would take you no choice.

Henry: 24:31

Now we might shame you into it.

Randy: 24:33

Yes, you would come along. Right. That sounds like a lot of fun. Anyway. Well, let's talk about back to being a lawyer here. People are great. Do we have to get more right uncle? So the term, I mean, you are a business litigator, right? Business litigation. I mean, it just sounds like, Whoa, don't, don't don't, you know, especially in our world kind of working with small businesses. so I'm sure you've. Get the chance to counsel, business owners, obviously in what you do, what are some of the constant things that you see as potential issues or hazards for business owners that continually pop up?

Henry: 25:11

Yeah. You know, it's funny cause I, I do business. Litigation's a lot of my practice. I also do though., you know, 10 years in-house I was also a corporate attorney, so I always kind of say. Um, and I used to say it to my, my boss at the old place, you know, he'd want to do certain things. I'd say, Howard, w we can talk about that and, you know, I can advise you how to stay out of the problem or I can help you after, you know, the problem, , is often running. Yeah. And he draws eyes and it's very expensive. Yeah. Yeah. yeah, th the, the biggest thing is, is really dealing with issues when they arise., usually these legal issues that come up., they're oftentimes buried in thick documents and there's a lot of words and mumbo-jumbo that, uh, um, you know, that people really don't understand and to go out and, and, , talk to a lawyer about it is, , it's a blank check I'm running. I don't know what it's going to cost me., I might not know a lawyer very well if somebody, you really trust, , And there is this reluctance, uh, to go in and deal with it. Cause it's easier not to. And there's more pressing issues, oftentimes, you know, business about selling and if you're not selling, then it doesn't matter what legal issues you have because you know, you don't have a business., I, you know, the, the, the biggest issue is, is I think, , and I, I see it from when you're in litigation from the, the backend, when, you know, they, they didn't deal with it. It's really to, , you almost have to bite the bullet and just force yourself to, To really just, , figure out what's going on and get a handle on it., a lot of lawyers I will do it., I'm fine with taking phone calls from people. I've always got to be careful because I can't give legal advice. Someone's not a client, but you know, if I can get people oriented to the issue. I'm always happy to do that because it's part of our duty as a lawyers and believe it or not, there are duties that we follow, we're supposed to be, um, you know, we're, we're officers of the court really. You know what I think it's it's, if I can help point someone in the right direction,, before they have to write a check or before they have to commit to something,, I never have a problem sitting down talking with someone about an issue and just really trying to get them situated. And if it turns out that it, uh, you know, it doesn't result in business, , maybe get the next time. Yeah, it's fine.

Randy: 27:13

I love how you kind of phrase that to help the people orient the issue. Right. To kind of like essentially map it out a little bit so that they understand serious, not serious. Yeah. Something to deal with. Yeah.

Henry: 27:29

Yeah. Or things that are not serious things that a business owner can take care of themselves. And there are things that a business owner can understand the risk and say, yeah. Uh, you know, This is one I'll handle. and that's kind of the advantage of being again, I was in, in a company and, um, they didn't want, me to overload or everything. I mean, again, they were, you know, believe it or not, they were interested in, , selling make money and, you know, so they would want me to do it be efficient and, and try to resolve things as quickly as possible and not take up, , time. They want to spend figuring out how to make money.

Randy: 28:00

Along those lines and understanding privacy issues, obviously, but is there any incredible story you can share that we could learn from,

Henry: 28:10

you know, what, it's funny? Cause, , I, I was thinking about this, the, the best stories I have, , Don't always come with the best lessons. Um, you know, the, I mean, I, I, we had some great cases, again, as a, as a business litigator at a, at a big firm., you know, I, I worked on, Oh, you know, there was one insurance company, uh, here in town that went under, you know, inflames, the. State came in and seized the operation. There were criminal indictment. There was ultimately spun into lawsuits against the officers and directors and, uh, some, one of the biggest firms in town, one of the biggest accounting companies in the world, you know, we brought in $23 million on that case, it was just, it was all over the papers. You know, it was a lot of fun to work on. I was part of a team., but it was, it was fascinating. I've had a, I had a run of cases out in, uh, out out East where, uh, investment advisor, he stole, about 12 million bucks from, uh, from clients, uh, resulted in about 20 or 30 different lawsuits. We represented the broker that they sold, uh, security through, um, just. Fellow who got himself in a financial problem and there's half dozen stories that come out of this, but sure. I recognize we don't have the time,, you know, he ultimately went, , he was supposed to actually, he was supposed to appear for a hearing in my judges might where I started my career. Oh, really? In his chambers. Uh, instead of showing up there, he drove to Erie and he killed himself. Oh, um, yeah, just very. Dramatic. Um, and, um, you know, it, it, he had, he had kind of violated the trust. His father had started the business, violated the trust and, uh, um, you know, we had his, his, a suicide notes. and it was just, you know, it's, it's kind of heartbreaking because he wasn't, you know, he wasn't living this lifestyle as far as we could tell. Right., he made bad bets in securities, you know, he just, he just. Th th th the market got them. And, um, you know, it was very unfortunate. So you see, , at that level and those type of cases I mean, those are the, those are the most interesting stories., and again, there's side stories that come out of those situations that are fascinating. Male figure. I always figure if I wrote a book, you know, I've got a couple of good starts right there. Right., but you know where the, the, the, you said, you know, lessons we could learn I kind of thought about that. You know, when I was preparing, um, you know, the best stories are those types of stories where there's, you know, there's drama in newspapers, you know, indictments flying everywhere. To me that I learned the best lesson from watching, you know, more experienced lawyers doing it. You know, I there's guys whose preparation., I had no idea and they were just, you know, when they walked into a, a deposition and they're questioning the other side, they're coming up with questions is like, how did you ever. Do that., and you know, instead of going chronological and just asking how the story went, these guys, kind of, they had their own sense of organization because they understood it so well. And that's where you're ahead of the other guy. And that's where you do your best job. I've got, guys, I, I know very complex situations where I remember as a young lawyer, I would say, Oh, we can't agree to that. And I remember one old partner older, he'd be offended if I say that older partner. Um, I remember he was like, why do we care? Why do we care about that? And I'm like, that's a good point. Why do we care? And you know what? It was kind of a lesson I learned that, you know, you've really got to keep her ready, keep your eye on the ball, uh, look for, you know, what, what really matters. Right. And set the other stuff aside. Yeah. Um, so that's where I learned my lessons and that's, you know, I think those are lessons that are good for, are good for business people to learn to, you know, preparation and keep staying focused. Um, those are all, uh, I think topics that, that, you know, help you build your business.

Randy: 31:40

I love that., uh, well, a keep your eye on the ball, I think, but it almost kind of hearkens back to what you were saying earlier. I was looking at my notes here about where you kind of deal with issues as they arise. So probably the best lesson is like, Deal with it before it just gets unwieldy. Right. That's right. And yeah.

Henry: 31:59

Yeah. There's some things that, , you know, you, you look at the, the, the client, you say, Oh, if you had come here, , two or three months ago, if you had given me this letter before, had you just called me, you know, the, the grief I could have saved you, but,, everybody learns, you know what I mean? I I'd like to think that everybody, you know, takes advice when it's given to you, but I have kids I know better. Um,

Randy: 32:19

you know, I, uh, that's funny you say that because in my mind I was like, you have no man, my kids, I'm not like, yes. Every parent on the planet just immediately like, yes, yes.

Henry: 32:30

Oh, I guess my minor holding co well, my daughter just graduated. Uh, you know what? You tell them and you look at them in their eyes, you could see them like. Dad. No, not you, you don't know anything, I'm still waiting for the point where they yeah.

Randy: 32:43

Yes. My freshman in high school, it gives me that lock every day. How was your day? You wouldn't understand.

Henry: 32:49

Yeah. I feel like it wasn't that long ago I was doing it myself, you know?

Randy: 32:53

Right. Uh, all right. So, , You get involved in the community and you shared a little bit, some of that about why, but I'm wondering, you know, you serve on several boards, you're on a lot of committees. I mean, you and I sit together on the, uh, the chamber of commerce board. Why do you do it? Why is it important?

Henry: 33:13

You know, it's it's, I mean, I enjoy. You know, the reality is, I mean, I like to say I like giving back, which is kind of what you expect to hear when someone says that. But I like doing things other than the law and I like working with people in other contexts., other than just, you know, doing legal things, you know, the one, uh, I'm on one board of a, of a school, um, it's run by Catholic nuns who help, , special needs kids. Can you get a better. Organization that, you know, nuns, helping kids with special needs., you know, I've done that for years and, um, they're just good people involved and they're, they're working hard trying to do their best for, for kids who have challenges. I mean, how could you not like that? You know, the, the chamber I love doing the chamber. I love it. You know, everything that we do for,, this is community, we have the chagrin Valley, it's just a great community. There's so many, so many good people out here, small businesses. um, I do like, um, if I can take some of the experiences that I've had and, um, you know, help out an organization, , it's fun.

, Randy: 34:11

Well, and I know the community absolutely appreciates the effort and the time and the involvement that you give for that. It's been great serving with you on the, on the, uh, on the board. And I knew from our very first board meeting, , that I sat in on and. Yeah, we were involved in some kind of an issue and you had your lawyer hat on and you're like that. Dude's good. He's a good guy to have on the board. I try. Uh, great. All right. So here we are. We're at the, uh, the bottom of the ninth Henry., here's where we're always kinda like to ask our guests, you know, what advice do you have for the rookies in the game?, those folks. Just starting out in small business or thinking about small business, maybe been in business for a little bit of time., what kind of advice do you have for those folks?

Henry: 35:00

Yeah, you know, I, I I've kind of said it before, but, , and I, I really draw this from my old company., again, my, my. President at my old company, he went and sold the first insurance policy in that company. He had been with a company that sold similar policies, but he went out, he got the funding together., and then he really literally knocked on the first door and sold that first insurance policy. And then he brought it up. Too about, we sold a company for about 250 million. Yeah., but one thing that he always says is always said was that, , you know, the first thing business is that nothing had worked. He says nothing happens in business until something is sold. I said it before, but there's lots of legal niceties out there, but at the end of the day, you've got to be able to sell your services. And then after that, once you, you, you get a plan for that. That's when you start looking at, you know, how do I do this the right way? Um, and who can help me do that? You know, do I have a, , a good lawyer who can help me with issues? Do I have, you know, that's, that's where, where you branch out. I remember when I started at my company, I was talking to that there was an attorney at that. The, the parent company,, where he'd gotten funding. And I remember when I went there, this was this attorney who I had worked with back at my firm. And again, we, you know, they hired me in and, um, he was a Southern big Southern guy and he had gravelly voice and he said, Henry, you know, you're talking to bill Clinton. Um, But he said, you know, having a lawyer is part of the infrastructure for growth. And, you know, in that, the people who sell the insurance can now focus on selling and you can have the lawyer focus on legal things and you don't add a much smaller level. That's what you do in a small business is that when you start to build it., after you, you figured out how to sell stuff. Once you figured out how to build it, you've got to figure out how to make yourself efficient. And you do the things that, that make money and things that you're good at. And that's when you can start to offload issues on people like lawyers and accountants and bankers and, you know, finance people, , you know, that's, as you, as you start to grow it, you really, , that's where it, it makes sense to bring in professionals and, you know, you can do what you do well, but. you can have other people, you know, guys, who've been practicing for 26 years. Right. You know, have the manual, illegal issues. Yeah. You won't be one of those people who say, how, what should I call it two months ago now

Randy: 37:11

I love the kind of that Sage advice that a mentor had for you that, you know, nothing happens in business until you sell something. Right. And it reminds me of some of the other advice, , if you can sell, you'll never be out of work. Yeah, right, right. And it all kind of comes down to that point. That's the, uh, that's the initiator of the business. All right. Well, that's great. So I know, uh, as you have said, Hey, give him a call. You're open for having a coffee and taking a phone call. People can find you, KDGlegal.com., we'll have all of your contact information in the show notes as well. Henry, it's been great having you on the show. I really appreciate it. Appreciate the free counsel and advice and, uh, but it's been great having you really do want to thank you for that. and for those people that are listening, Hey, Thanks for joining us today. If you liked her show, tell your friends subscribe. And we had always loved review. And as we say, we'll see around the ballpark running the basis with small businesses is brought to you by 38 digital market. A digital marketing agency, committed to client growth with lead generation higher conversions and increased sales connect with us today@thirtyeightdigitalmarket.com.